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Reading this forum via google translation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 9 of 17 06 September 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Sounds like the barmiest idea I've read in a long time, but...sometimes barmy ideas work!
(I speak as a fan of Viktor D Huliganov), so go for it. Don't forget to let us know how it works out though. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5128 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 10 of 17 06 September 2013 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I took the liberty of using GT to translate PeterMollenburg's original post from English to Spanish and French, as you suggest it would do "amazingly well". I can't verify the results for French, but I can for Spanish. While it generally does a decent enough job for a lot of the text, there are a couple of phrase-turns that it gets seriously wrong. Whether that's useful to you or not is up to you. In any case, here are the two translations from GT: Spanish: Hey pueblos, República Popular de China, la gente del Reino de Bután, raperos MC de, profesores, conserjes, y magos, Acabo de decidir (ayer / ayer / Gisteren / hier) que iba a tratar de leer todos los post en este foro (en la hora del almuerzo en el trabajo / Trabajo / werk / travail etc por lo general reacios FB, foros, juegos en línea, etc, principalmente porque No me gusta perder el tiempo con (en mi opinión / à mon avis) basura innecesaria mente- que pierde cuando podría estar aprendizaje de un idioma, o dilatar más el aprendizaje de una lengua mediante la lectura de otro (a l'avis des autres personnes) basura sin sentido. Así que mi pregunta es la siguiente ... ¿Sería "bueno" en el (los ciudadanos del mundo, incluyendo el fondo de los lagos más profundos y más allá en exterior espacio) opinión de .... esperar a que ... A qué esperas? Mejor ser! Para leer este foro en francés (actual lengua de estudio) a través de las traducciones de google? Mi primer extensa (por favor, dejar de lado un par de horas para hacer su camino a través de este) lista de pros y contras de lecturas así: Pros: Idioma Exposición / refuerzo de estudiado previamente (en contextos limitados) Nuevo vocabulario aprendido Contras: Exposición / refuerzo de las traducciones incorrectas ¿Alguna idea? French: Hey peuples, République populaire de Chine, les gens du Royaume du Bhoutan, rappeurs MC, professeurs, concierges, et les magiciens, les J'ai juste décidé (hier / ayer / Gisteren / hier) que je voudrais tenter de lire chaque post sur ce forum (au cours de pause déjeuner au travail / trabajo / werk / travail, etc En général, je déteste FB, forums, jeux en ligne etc principalement parce que Je n'aime pas perdre mon temps avec (dans mon opinion / à mon avis) inutile merde esprit gaspillage quand je pourrais être l'apprentissage d'une langue, ou de tergiverser sur l'apprentissage d'une langue en lisant d'autres (à l'Avis des Autres personnes) les déchets aveugle. Donc ma question est la suivante ... Serait-il «bon» dans votre (citoyens du monde, y compris les profondeurs des lacs les plus profonds et au-delà en extérieur espace) opinion à .... attendez qu'il ... que vous attendez? Mieux vaut être! Pour lire l'intégralité de ce forum en français (actuel langue d'étude) via google traduction? Ma première grande (s'il vous plaît mettre de côté quelques heures pour faire votre chemin à travers cette) liste des pros et les inconvénients lectures comme ceci: Pro c'est: Exposition / renfort pour étudiée précédemment langue (dans des contextes limités) Nouveau vocabulaire appris Con: Exposition / renforcement des traductions incorrectes Toute pensée? R. == Edited by hrhenry on 06 September 2013 at 5:29pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5764 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 11 of 17 06 September 2013 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Just ... no. I wouldn't do that.
Some years ago I had a livejournal, and because I used it mostly for things related to some of my interests and followed livejournals with similar content from all over the world, I wrote it in English. And so did the majority of my German friends who were part of that group. One thing I noticed back then was that, knowing my German friends had had the same education as I did, they were likely to experience the same kind of interference and make the same kind of errors I did - I found myself skimming and skipping their entries, because reading them made me try to fathom for every single expression whether it was comprehensible, correct or even elegant. And that gave me serious headaches. It's not as bad with native speakers of other languages, as their errors are different from mine. Now, I trust machine translation less than I trust second language speakers, because in humans, errors are usually systematic as they stem from interference and incomplete acquisition of a second language feature. The errors in machine translation, however, do not follow the same kind of recognizable pattern that is used by one single speaker of a language, as the corrections and expressions fed into the machine are taken from a bigger pool of speakers with different habits and sensibilities. Meaning, I actually think I would probably not learn and fossilize certain errors - because I would not learn much from that kind of translated text. But it would certainly be less enjoyable than reading even moderately enjoyable native text, because correcting for possible wrong use of a language is exhausting. Really exhausting. Edited by Bao on 06 September 2013 at 6:05pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Tsopivo Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4469 days ago 258 posts - 411 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Esperanto | Message 12 of 17 06 September 2013 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I had tried the same and I can not recommend reading that kind of texts to anyone learning French, because, well, it is not French. It is a collection of French words thrown together loosely following French grammar rules but it is not a text any native would ever produce (no matter how illiterate or "uneducated"). If you are a French speaker and can't read English, it does an impressive job at making the first post understandable for you. Though not without efforts. It's far from being painless to read and I am not sure every French speaker monolingual would be able to understand that text. But as far as translation goes, it does not do amazingly well. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4826 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 13 of 17 06 September 2013 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Perhaps the OP-er would like to re-google-translate the google translation into French of
his OP back into English, and see for himself whether it does an acceptable job. I just did this myself, and given the "free" nature of the OP, I don't think it has made such a bad job. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4907 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 14 of 17 06 September 2013 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually, I found that to be the case with the English original of the first post. Also, I know several people from the Kingdom of Bhutan and none of them use these forums ;) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Tsopivo Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4469 days ago 258 posts - 411 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Esperanto | Message 15 of 17 06 September 2013 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I am not sure that is the best way to assess the level of GT. I would rather take an original text in French (or another language) and translate it to English.
That's true. I tried some other posts and the results vary. My opinion still stands though, it is exposure to something that is not the real language you are trying to learn and I am not sure how helpful it can be. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5474 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 16 of 17 07 September 2013 at 4:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Ok,
Some very useful comments here. I want to emphasise that it was not my intention to use this method of one of my main methods of study, but as an adjunct. Lately i've been implementing many strategies (audio in car, SRS in queues, music, films etc) to fill in gaps. I have begun reading many websites in L2 & at one point was so determined to avoid English (L1) I began translating EN websites into FR. This is a fantastic forum full of interesting ideas and passionate language learners from diverse backgrounds. Therefore reading all posts would be not only interesting but also useful in terms of new resources and new learning techniques etc. The plan is to read outside my planned study hours when I sit at my desk and actively study. I don't actively study on lunch breaks at work and see this time as down time, a chance to chill and do something easy while chomping away on comp-worthy foodstuffs obtained from local and intl sources. Why not read everything on the forum then? That's a lot of reading! Why not do it in French then? Ok so you get the picture. My final decision: no. I will read the posts in EN (FR for those posts in the French section originally posted in French). Why no? I don't feel the need to do 'trial runs'. Near enough I decided is not good enough. It's already tough enough reading L2 without adding the inaccuracy element of dealing with sub-par translations. I think it took a few opinions on here to help me make that decision. My perfectionism couldn't live with it in the end & a few posts in I think that would've highly contributed to abandoning the project. Crap translations also = less enjoyment. I'm sure the Bhutanese, Bhutanians, and those if Bhutan will be happy either way. Fingers crossed google's service keeps improving. As for the corporation, well that's another story. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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