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Catalan is not a dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Lucas Pentaglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5166 days ago 85 posts - 130 votes  Speaks: French*, English, German, Italian, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 25 of 46 04 November 2010 at 7:30am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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For me, the fact that some languages are called "dialects" doesn't mean you can say
this is a dialect and this is a language! It's a bit like some cars are called "hummer" and some people are called "americans". I'd suggest the following topics for people here trying to define the difference between a language and a dialect: - What's the difference between a car and a hummer? - What's the difference between an human being and an american? - etc... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 7102 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 26 of 46 04 November 2010 at 8:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I'm no administrator , so this is the best I can do... http://www.filosofia.org/hem/dep/boe/19750701.htm http://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-A-1975-13948 Very interesting read, thanks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5225 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 27 of 46 04 November 2010 at 9:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Actually most of the whole bunch of documents they list in http://www.filosofia.org/hem/dep/boe/ (I haven't read them all) are equally interesting; they make a surprising portrait of how things really went at the time, which apparently is a really uncomfortable truth - the nationalists always speak to the contrary (so as to look as some kind of 'heroes' in front of their hordes/herds because 'they' started it all) and the media never dwell on what actually happened, because it apparently goes against the current government interests too. For starters, most of the BOE of that time exists just a bunch of pictures, i.e. way less accessible, searchable, etc. than modern issues, so understandably... and so conveniently as well :( Thank you for the links, Andy, mine won't work until I reach admin-knows-what limit ;) Edit: it seems I can make links now - let the spam begin!!! (Just kidding :P) Edited by mrwarper on 04 November 2010 at 9:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6959 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 28 of 46 04 November 2010 at 10:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I like the joke ! But Tuscan is a dialect with many languages or a language with many dialects (Fiorentino-Senese-Occidentale-Pisano-Pistoiese-Lucchese-Are tino-Grossetano- Apuano etc. etc) look here http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialetto_toscano 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 29 of 46 04 November 2010 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
The biggest grammatical difference is the past tense. Valencian and Insular Catalan use a preterite similar to Spanish and the past historic in French and Italian, but West Catalan and (I think) North Catalan use a periphrastic past composed from the conjugation of "to go" followed by an infinitive -- I went is "vaig anar" (lit "Voy ir" or "I go go"). There's a marked difference in phonology, in that unstressed A and E in West and (again, "I think") North Catalan are schwaified to an extent, but take a hard "a" sound in Valencian and Insular.
Perhaps in Alghero/Àlguero in Sardinia, where there is no native Spanish-speaking population, but around 10,000 speakers of Algherese Catalan.
The last sentence is, in my experience, correct. I hear plenty of Spanish people tell me they understand Italian, and plenty of Italian speakers say they understand Spanish. But they're invariably people who have studied another language or 2. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6959 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 30 of 46 04 November 2010 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algherese &nbs p; (in English) Cainntear Wrote "Perhaps in Alghero/Àlguero in Sardinia, where there is no native Spanish-speaking population, but around 10,000 speakers of Algherese Catalan" Algureres is a variant of Catalan around 26.000 speakers here some info in English http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Algherese ( 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6959 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 31 of 46 04 November 2010 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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In Sardinia there are , no less than 8 languages + Italian
http://sardegna.blogosfere.it/2010/08/cartina-linguistica-de lla-sardegna.html 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5225 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 32 of 46 04 November 2010 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Wow, that's completely crazy!
Interesting. So, would you say that Catalan is a dialect of Valencian, or that they are separate languages? :D
Interestingly enough, the only time I've been to Italy (some 15 years ago) some people and I (I especially remember that old-as-Satan waiter) found each other mutually comprehensible with very little effort, and to some others I had to speak English (which I found mighty weird, but hey). Edited by mrwarper on 04 November 2010 at 6:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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