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Is Tagalog dying? | ||
Tags: Tagalog | Language Importance | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Raчraч Ŋuɲa Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5817 days ago 154 posts - 233 votes  Speaks: Bikol languages*, Tagalog, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, Russian, Japanese | Message 33 of 56 17 July 2011 at 1:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Can you clarify what you mean by Filipino language, and how is that different from Tagalog language? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| psr13 Newbie United States Joined 5194 days ago 8 posts - 10 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 34 of 56 26 July 2011 at 5:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
They are actually two different languages. Tagalog has a lot more Spanish words than does Filipino. In the U.S. at least, though, Tagalog is usually used to reference the national language (Filipino). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| miggy93 Diglot Newbie Philippines Joined 4803 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English, Tagalog* Studies: Korean | Message 35 of 56 01 October 2011 at 5:57am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Tagalog is the language of the Tagalog ethnic group in the Philippines. Filipino, on the other hand, is the national language of the Philippines and is based upon the Tagalog language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| trainspotted11 Newbie United States Joined 4630 days ago 5 posts - 12 votes Speaks: Tagalog | Message 36 of 56 01 April 2012 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I lived in the Philippines for two years and became completely fluent in Tagalog, or at
least the version of Tagalog that is spoken there. I live in the provinces of Pangasinan and La Union the whole two years, so I also learned parts of Pangasinan and Ilokano. Anyway, I would definitely say Tagalog is dying. Taglish is the main spoken language and in two years, I met only a handful of people that spoke "pure Tagalog". Now, I understand the reason and need for Taglish. Tagalog simply doesn't have a big enough vocabulary and isn't descriptive enough. I found myself searching for a word I wanted to say and realized, there simply is no equivalent in Tagalog, so I used the English word. I predict that in the near future, maybe 10 years, Tagalog will be a thing of the past. Like when I lived in Pangasinan, Everyone spoke Tagalog and English, so Pangasinan was slowly fading away. The same is happening to Tagalog. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| pansitkanton Diglot Newbie Philippines Joined 4599 days ago 6 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English, Tagalog* Studies: Korean | Message 37 of 56 21 April 2012 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
[ EDITED ]
^ The linguistic landscape of the Philippines is quite complicated given that we are a multilinguistic and socio-economic hierarchic country. Take note that both aforementioned indicators provide various possibilities. Aside from that, not only Tagalog-dominant regions are qualified in this situation. Due to the economic and cultural prestige of English, urban residents (not exclusive to Tagalogs) are more likely to speak semilingually (codeswitching tendencies). Other than that, the rural people are more likely to talk almost absent of English unless there are technical or scientific terms. When you go to other cities particularly in the Visayas and Mindanao (Cebu, Bacolod, Iloilo, Tacloban, Davao, etc), you'd encounter the same situation of code-switching (though NOT English-Tagalog). It's a matter of casualness. Urban people do not really speak Tagalog or Cebuano or Hiligaynon or any other Philippine language as how they really are meant to be except for academic and strictly formal settings. We commonly combine some, if not a lot, of English in different forms of code-switching or tag-switching. People would rather feel estranged if you speak in the purest form. Common perception is it sounds very archaic.
^ Filipino in reality IS Tagalog. Constitutionally, it's supposed to be an amalgamation of all existing languages in the Philippines. Idealistically, "Filipino" would not appear as what it is right now. There's supposed to be no boundary in the development of such "Filipino language" in accordance to the Philippine law. In short, the government has been violating the law (and rendering the people to do so as well) ever since they included this in the Constitution. The post-war government dreamed of uniting the entire Philippine state with a new language by creolization which is tremendously difficult, thus lead its failure. Even when you ask people, the whole confusion between Filipino and Tagalog speaks a lot of how it did not work out. They ended up rationalizing that "Tagalog would be used as the base language." What a load of crap. Aside from these issues, there are residual effects that came about right when the "Filipino language" was conceptualized. Clandestine cultural and ethnic marginalization arose in many sectors of society. People failed to understand what is a language and a dialect (pretty much the same issue for many European languages. These obviously undermine the supposed source of strength of Philippine identity: diversity and NOT feign promises of artificial homogeneity.
^ Yes, since English is a prestige language (also rapidly being deemed so such as in South Korea) even in Malaysia and India. The only area of Philippine media spared by Taglish and English are historical programs and a few soap operas (they're much more formal than Tagalog movies. IDK why, but that seems like an interesting area of study). Since Manila Tagalog (AKA Filipino) is the dominant form of Tagalog, even historically Tagalog speaking adjacencies are converting to the capital dialect.
^ And, it isn't dying; it's evolving--well if we take into consideration the Manila dialect (I have no current information about outlying Tagalog provinces)--into a creole in the name of Taglish. I doubt it would go no far identical from Tagalog more than a variety of English. The core grammatical component of Taglish is still Tagalog. The location of modifiers, the tensing, and lexicalization of the verb affixes completely are parallel to the Tagalog system. The dominant change is the lexicon. Edited by pansitkanton on 21 April 2012 at 10:20pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4764 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 38 of 56 21 April 2012 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Well said, pansitkanton :)
The idea of Tagalog dying is ridiculous. Millions of people speak it. It is changing rapidly, as living languages do. When my wife moved to Manila from Southern Leyte when she was 16, she certainly needed to learn Tagalog to communicate, not English. In my recent study of Spanish, I have become even more aware of the massive effect Spanish had on Tagalog during the centuries of Spanish colonization. If one insists that the only "true" Tagalog is one untainted by any "outside" language, then "Tagalog" has been dead for hundreds of years :) steve 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| pansitkanton Diglot Newbie Philippines Joined 4599 days ago 6 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English, Tagalog* Studies: Korean | Message 39 of 56 21 April 2012 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
^ So many languages around the world are nativizing English terms even those of societies which we all think as monolingually non-Anglicized (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai). Why English insertion is very salient is because Filipinos are [1] indigenous-English bi-/multilingual, and/or [2] English is a prestige language. Actually, the 2nd point amplifies the 1st. Given that virtually there is no monolingual Filipino and that most of them have a certain degree of command of English (a strong scientific and economic force since local languages were unable to supplant what English provides), their common tendency is to code-switch. Adding the fact that English is a strong cultural arbiter further motivates them to code-switch most especially among the well-educated and high-income citizens. Due to the long exposure to English media which many are locally-produced and the local complex towards native accents of English, Filipinos are more likely to produce a 'neutral' spoken English, therefore makes foreigners and locals alike to conclude that Tagalog (or other Philippine languages) are being bastardized or dying. When you watch other contemporary northeast Asian media, you'd be astonished with the considerably copious amount of English borrowing. They're simply phoneticized in accordance to the language. (KR: apartment = 아파트 /apateu/; ice cream = 아이스 크림 /aiseu keurim/ | JP: drive = ドライブ /doraibu/; performance = パフォーマンス /pafōmansu/)
^ They're just sugar-coated justifications in written definitions. When looking at it linguistically, Filipino is Tagalog itself. The adaptation of loanwords as done today in English has been in practice WAY BEFORE the "Filipinization" of the government. Good examples are common Tagalog religious terms, idioms and catchphrases from Spanish. Nevertheless, the process is still happening for English. I do not see any reason to set apart definitions for loaning from two different languages; they're technically the same process. pwede, sige, sara, bintana, kotse, yelo, kutsara, tinidor, kutsilyo, kusina, banyo, pader, lamesa, pera, puta = all Spanish-loaned before the birth of the 'Filipino' concept yet still acknowledged Tagalog words Edited by pansitkanton on 22 April 2012 at 7:48pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tmp011007 Diglot Senior Member Congo Joined 6068 days ago 199 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 40 of 56 24 April 2012 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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"professor" clugston says:
http://youtu.be/cZs-wjK30tk 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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