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Is Immersion without SRS possible? | ||
Tags: Spaced Repetition (SRS) | Immersion | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4730 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes  Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 17 of 22 04 February 2012 at 7:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Just with output and the feedback as my input, I went to some kind of lower intermediate level.
Nah, just kidding. You have to learn vocab one way or another, there's no way around it. You can sit down and read until your eyes bleed, and words will pass by without effect. You could mark unknow words (or have it being marked automatically, via LingQ or LWT), and that might help you noticing. But, in my opinion, learning vocab in an isolated fashion does work, and it works quite well. If you do it with flash cards and SRS, or just flash cards, or audio trainer, or whatever, it all comes down to that Russian proverb: Repetition is the mother of learning. And you need to learn words more than anything else. Words should be the #1 priority, and learning enough will take more time than mastering even advanced grammar points (which you will notice being used in material made for natives, if you learned enough words to understand well enough and can concentrate on such stuff). Edited by atama warui on 04 February 2012 at 7:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sandman Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5437 days ago 168 posts - 389 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 18 of 22 04 February 2012 at 7:09am | IP Logged | ||
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SRS doesn't have to be something that takes over your life.
I think most anti-SRS threads start with people trying way too much way too quickly and then find themselves neck-deep in the reality that SRS is just as intensive as the hardest methods they might've otherwise chosen. Ask yourself some simpler questions ... Can you handle 3 minutes a day of SRS? If so, then SRS is for you. Can you handle ONE minute a day of SRS? Then SRS is absolutely right for you. Don't dump word/grammar lists into your SRS if you aren't sure about it. Put only the things you really want slammed into your head. Even 2 or 3 words a day in an SRS (OR LESS!) is an important chunk of language learning over the course of 1 year (730 to 1080 words), and even in the most difficult of languages it would take a pretty trivial amount of time each day. With that low of a word load, even in the harder languages (learning Mandarin/Japanese characters along with the phonetics and the meaning) and while double-siding every card, it could be achieved in 7 or 8 minutes a day (worst case scenario). Is 1000 words a year with 7 or 8 minutes worth of work a day really too much too ask for with Mandarin/Japanese/Korean/etc? How about 2 or 3 minutes a day for 1000 words a year (I can maintain 3 moderately unfamiliar words a day in Spanish at around 3 minutes a day and I have no particular gift for memory) for some romance languages? The words/day nazis will laugh at that kind of output, but really when you hold them to the fire over extended periods of time it's not a bad return at all. People try 30 minutes or an hour ... no wonder they hate it. If you try too much, and then get locked into it, you'll want to kill yourself. Any human would ... If you feel SRS is not for you, do it for 3 minutes a day. Seriously. On a day by day, or week by week, basis you will notice absolutely nothing, until you sit down at the end of the year and realize you've slowly chipped away 1/3 of an enormous boulder you never even realized you were working on (and hopefully didn't spend much time chipping at either). SRS is a marathon, not a sprint. It is a slow, slow, slow, drip for those that use it right. There should be plenty of time to do the other things that folks use for studying, while STILL using SRS for that daily drip that adds nicely over the long, long times required to learn a language. Think of the tunnel Tim Robbins built in the "Shawskank Redemption ..." SRS won't get you out of prison, and you're going to have to live your life as a prisoner to your particular L2 language ... but after two or three years you'll look back and wonder how in god's name you managed to tunnel your way so far out of a maximum security prison. I think something else that trips people up is they actually care when they get an answer right or not. They feel bad if they get a card wrong, like they're learning slower than others or it reflects poorly on them. If you do SRS, as much as anything ... do not GIVE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST CRAP whether you answer right or wrong. Think about the answer a bit, click whichever button best applies, and then move on with your life. If you aren't answering them incorrectly at a decent frequency then the program ISN'T WORKING. I swear I think a misunderstanding of the algorithm, or people's psychology is the #1 reason by far why they give up on SRS. The algorithm tries to "walk the line" of your memory. If its a question that is too easy, it is built in to the algorithm to NOT ASK YOU. Every flashcard should be HARD, by design. Edited by Sandman on 04 February 2012 at 8:46am 13 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6579 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 19 of 22 06 February 2012 at 6:07am | IP Logged | ||
Studies show that having a reasonable amount of easy material mixed in with difficult material is beneficial. I don't know what percentage it should be, but I disagree that all flashcards should be hard. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 6010 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 20 of 22 06 February 2012 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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In practice you're always going to have your fair share of "easy" cards, because no
program can work out perfectly well how your memory works, so this is a somehow theoretical discussion. That said, I'm not sure what do you mean with difficult material. Everything that's in your SRS collection should already be digested in terms of learning, and not pose any real difficulty. When you can't remember a word in your native language, you don't say it is a hard or difficult word, it's just that it slipped your mind, or it's on the tip of your tongue. I can't see why it should be different with your target language. As far as I can tell, been able to remember a word depends on how strong and rich was the first impression (context), how well can you relate the new fact with what you already know (cognates, similar structures in your other languages, etc), and finally, repetition. There's nothing inherently easy or difficult. Edited by Javi on 06 February 2012 at 6:06pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5038 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 21 of 22 06 February 2012 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks, Sandman. You quite summed up why I had left Anki long time ago. I'll keep to your advice with any further attempts. I am currently excited about memrise but this first excitement can't stay for long so I should begin with the "small bit a day" approach. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6704 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 22 of 22 07 February 2012 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | ||
Maybe this is the best post ever. Thank you. I use immersion and SRS. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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