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L-R with Mandarin | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | Mandarin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| hobom Triglot Newbie Joined 4219 days ago 33 posts - 61 votes  Speaks: German*, English, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 1 of 20 13 May 2013 at 2:03pm | IP Logged |
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Hello everybody.
Recently I read many posts about the L-R method by augarri (or something similar). Basically, it is reading a book in your L1 while listening to the same book in L2. He/She claims that using this method it is possible to learn a language in a week from scratch. It sounds like nonsense made for the gullible and naive person who is easily impressible by absurd claims. Since this is a perfect discription of me I decided to give it a try. I wanted to learn Chinese for some time, but unfortunately I lacked the patience and motivation to learn at least some decent amount of Mandarin. I know basic grammar (which is a great achievement in Mandarin ;), probably around 100 words, and have a decent pronounciation when it comes to the sounds, but probably not the tones. First I will read the book Borthers by Yu Hua, which I chose because it seems interesting and was available in English and as a audiobook. After that I will probably read/listen Anna Karenina. Now one problem, which to my knowledge was never discussed in any L-R thread, is being able to identify the corresponding parts while you are listening/reading. How can you know for sure that the sentence you read is the translation of the sentence you are hearing rather than for example the next one? In the beginning it is probably easy, but I fear it is possible to lose your way as the record progresses. While it is not difficult to identify different sentences, it is imaginable that the translation is not literal and sentences have been merged. I hope the few words I can identify are enough to be able to follow. In the original L-R method the "inventor" suggested as step 1 to read the book first from cover to cover, then read the L2 text with the L2 audio and then do the actual L-Ring. I will adjust this approach, by normally reading a few chapters of the book, and then L-R those chapters. Reading the whole book doesen't seem necessary to me since I would probably forget the first parts after I am through. I skip the second step seeing that I already have some feeling for the melody of Mandarin. I intend to spend around 6-8 hours every day, which seems to be a crucial part in the system. According to the inventor of this method I am supposed to have achieved natural listening, if I keep up this rate, in about seven days. I am not sure if this method will work, but I am incredibly curious about this. What if this thing really works? It's essential not to lose motivation and focus which is why I have chosen an interesting book. In addition I wrote down my aim in this log (subconciously I probably have the desire to embarass myself publicly). I hope that, when at some point genuine interest in the book will be replaced by the wish to just mindlessly browse the internet, my self-discipline will suffice. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4522 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 20 13 May 2013 at 4:25pm | IP Logged |
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It isn't possible to learn a language in a week from scratch. Do you really think that from reading a book over the
course of a week in one language, whilst listening to it in another, is going to give you fluency in any way, shape or form? I don't think this will embarrass you publically, and everything is worth trying once in my opinion, but this seems like you're just going to waste a week in which you could do some more serious studying and make an actual start at learning the language. There doesn't seem to be any logic to this method (at least not if it is done over a week period with very small knowledge of the language). If you know 100 words in Mandarin, how on earth are you going to have any idea which words in Mandarin that you are listening to correlate to the English words you are reading? In a week you could learn to introduce yourself and perhaps have a very basic conversation if you spent 6-8 hours a day studying, using this method, I doubt you'll even be able to ask what time it is 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6441 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 20 13 May 2013 at 4:35pm | IP Logged |
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js6426: why don't you actually read any of the hundreds of threads on LR on this forum? You won't be fluent in Chinese in a week, but you can learn a surprising amount. I wrote a thread on doing a few hours of LR for Mandarin as an absolute beginner (I knew far less than a hundred words) a few weeks ago.
hobom: Get the copy of "The Little Prince" which is floating around. Having a parallel text is very useful, and the audiobook was specially recorded to actually match the Chinese text word-for-word, which is unusual. Edited by Volte on 13 May 2013 at 4:38pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4522 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 4 of 20 14 May 2013 at 6:34am | IP Logged |
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Volte: if i'm not mistaken the claim the OP was addressing was that it is possible to learn a language in a week
from scratch. This is what I was responding to. I don't doubt the value of LR at all, simply that in one week it is possible to learn a language from scratch in this way Edit - Volte when you say this copy of the little prince is floating around, do you mean it is available online for download? If so, where? Edited by js6426 on 14 May 2013 at 7:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6441 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 5 of 20 14 May 2013 at 4:47pm | IP Logged |
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I've learned enough of languages in a week with LR to understand a surprising amount of material in them; I haven't done the active stage.
The Mandarin "Little Prince" keeps appearing and disappearing, as it always seems to be uploaded to sites that don't store things for long. I don't have a current, working link, but it seems to reappear when people ask, at least sometimes. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| hobom Triglot Newbie Joined 4219 days ago 33 posts - 61 votes Speaks: German*, English, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 6 of 20 14 May 2013 at 4:51pm | IP Logged |
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First day: Unfortunately I wasn't able to do as much L-Ring as I hoped. In addition I feel that my brakes are too long, it's probably better to do quite long sessions for better immersion. I don't use a parallel text, just the recording and the book in L1.
In the beginning I want to focus on the spoken language. Totally I probably spent 4 hours doing L-R, not including normal reading of the book in L1. In the beginning it was really difficult to follow. I used a character to pinyin converter and translated individual sentences with google translator which helped me to get a feeling about the sentences. Now I able to identify the paragraph where I am in, and usually also the sentence, but maybe it's just because I know the names of the persons in the story. I think reading speed is quite important. In the beginning I read quite quickly and tried to listen at the same time to the recording. Now I try to get through the sentence as fast as I can and afterwards focus my whole attention on the recording. This is more exhausting, however I feel it helps you to reach the state where the brain absorbs the sentences more directly(but that's just speculation). Edited by hobom on 14 May 2013 at 4:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| hobom Triglot Newbie Joined 4219 days ago 33 posts - 61 votes Speaks: German*, English, Russian Studies: Mandarin | Message 7 of 20 14 May 2013 at 5:07pm | IP Logged |
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@Volte: Thank you for your suggestion. The audiobook I found is actually also a word by word recording (at least that's what my Mandarin speaking friend said), so that is ok. But now I definetely see the value of a parallel text, especially as a beginner. When I'm done with Brothers I am going to look for "The little Prince". However, didn't atamagaii suggest that short books are not the best choice for L-R? Or can you tell from personal experience that short books also have some benefit?
May I ask how long you kept doing LR with Mandarin? In your log you only wrote about the first two days if I am not mistaken. Also you say that you learnt a surprising amount. I suppose this means that the state of natural listening does not come after a week, right? @js6426: I couldn't agree with you more. However the atamagaii's claim was kind of backed up by Volte and some other members who found the method very helpful, and if I recall correctly, they didn't even put in the amount of time atamagaii said was necessary(does not mean I expect to be fluent in a week). It cannot hurt to try, so I am now going back for the next session of LR. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4522 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 8 of 20 15 May 2013 at 1:59am | IP Logged |
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Well if this is as effective as it sounds in getting a good kick start with a language, I may have to dabble in it
myself! Perhaps Japanese! Looking forward to hearing how this turns out for you hobom 1 person has voted this message useful |
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