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Requesting infos about Icelandic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6144 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 1 of 11 05 January 2009 at 11:42am | IP Logged | ||
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I have just been thinking about Icelandic recently, pondering the idea of potentially learning it at some point. So, I have a few questions about it:
1.) How hard is it to learn? There was no rating for it on this website--how would it rate on a scale from one to five? Is there noun gender? Cases/declensions? Articles? Formalities (du/Sie in German)? 2.) How similar is Icelandic to Old Norse? How similar is to other Scandinavian languages (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish)? How similar to other Germanic languages like English and German? (All of this in both writing and pronunciation.) 3.) What is some of the history of this language? 4.) Outside of Iceland, how useful is this language (if at all)? If you have any more information on this fascinating language, I'd be happy to hear of it. Thanks! Edited by Fasulye on 15 June 2010 at 8:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6667 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 2 of 11 05 January 2009 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have only studied a little Icelandic and that was quite a long time ago, so take what I say with a grain of salt:
1.) More or less as difficult as German for an English speaker. Knowledge of German or any Scandinavian language certainly makes it easier. 2.) It is quite different from all of them, but there are relatively many (recognizable) cognates with Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish. The cognates with English and German are fewer in number and more "heavily disguised". And the case system has some similarities to the German one, although this will not help to much in my opinion (the endings are very different). I don't know any Old Norse, but have read that it's rather close to Icelandic, which is a very conservative language, which hasn't changed too much in the last millenium - at least compared to other Germanic languages. 3.) See Wikipedia. 4.) I cannot think of any use at all. There are so few Icelandic speakers, you'd have to be lucky to meet even one in your life outside of Iceland. And even if you do, he/she will most like be fluent in English. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5840 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 3 of 11 05 January 2009 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am Swedish and find it very hard to understand Icelandic.
Danish requires a bit of focus but Norwegian is no effort at all. A friend of mine (Swedish) moved to Iceland. She said it took abut a month for her to get used to it and understand everything. The Icelanders on the other hand could usually understand her when she spoke Swedish. Icelanders are able to switch to a more "standard" Scandinavian way of speaking since they have HUGE exposure to media from other Scandi countries, particularly Denmark and Norway. Many of them live for a while in one of the Scandinavian capitals while they are in their 20s. Icelandic broke away from the other Scandinavian languages around AD 1100, or so (feel free to correct me). It was towards the end of the Viking age in Scandinavia - at around the time when the whole area became Christian. To the average Scandinavian, Icelandic sounds like something that would be on a Rune Stone - these are stones with inscriptions that the Vikings left behind. Yes, this is probably what is known in English as "old Norse", what the Scandinavian ancestors spoke. To some extent I suppose you could say that Icelanders speak like the Vikings did, whereas the other Scandinavian languages have been much more modernised and have moved on. Icelandic uses very few anglosaxon loan-words which increases the feeling that it is very 'old'. I think Marc is correct about his assessment of the usefulness of Icelandic. There definitely WERE some Icelandic language jobs in London during the Icelandic financial services "miracle". (Although in all honesty I am sure 99.9 of these were filled by natives..) Unfortunately this "bubble" burst during October last year as the "credit crunch" hit the UK. The Icelandic companies are closing down. Several of these companies went BUST. Landsbanki Bank - a huge savings bank headquartered in the same building that I work in - disappeared overnight along with plenty more Icelandic companies. The Icelandic currency lost something like half its value in a fortnight. Those European savers who lost their savings were NOT happy. Iceland is going through a period of introspection right now. The Icelandic economy simply wasn't large enough to support the huge financial enterprises they were running out of London and Luxembourg. They took advantage of easy credit in order to create a financial industry since they have very little else to export other than fish... It's a very small and very isolated country with little to export. It's a fascinating country with charming and very intelligent/driven people who will bounce back soon, no doubt. However the language has next to no practical use unless you plan to move there. If you have an interest in Vikings etc, remember that Runestones are written in a different alphabet, not in Icelandic. The words may be similar in most cases but there is no huge advantage. If you want to learn a Scandinavian language, learn Swedish (~11mil speakers including some in Finland) or Norwegian (~4-5 mil speakers and the easiest language for all Scandinavians to understand). Of the languages you mentioned German is by far the most practically useful language. German is more similar to the Scandinavian languages than English but they are not mutually understandable. Edited by cordelia0507 on 05 January 2009 at 3:50pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6144 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 4 of 11 05 January 2009 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you guys for your information.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kottoler.ello Tetraglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6005 days ago 128 posts - 192 votes Speaks: English*, Russian, Mandarin, French Studies: Japanese, German | Message 5 of 11 13 January 2009 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hæ!
I, myself just very, VERY recently starting my study of Icelandic but having a long-standing interest in Icelandic and Scandinavian languages, would like to point out that, yes, Icelandic is certainly the most difficult Scandinavian language to learn and probably the least useful, but I for one consider it to be the most beautiful, it´s also the most complex (which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it), and, despite what cordelia said, schoolchildren in Iceland are able to, without much difficulty, read the Eddas (our main source of Old Norse storytelling and mythology, and a large part of Viking culture) in the original Old Norse, such is the similarity between the two languages. The alphabet used is really not a factor, as most if not all texts are converted from the Runic alphabet to the Roman variant Icelandic alphabet to be read by the public. Something else you may find interesting is that for many words referring to modern things and or processes, instead of taking a loanword from English or another major language, Icelandic will dig for an outdated word with an applicable meaning. I believe the word for telephone, sími, was originally an antiquated word for a thread. So, consider attempting Icelandic, as it´s a really cool language, with some definite benefits, like well-respected and well-deserved bragging rights, a really nice, pretty, 'secret' language, and the ability to communicate with the Norse gods in a tongue they will understand. Bless! 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| NorseRonin Pro Member United States youtube.com/user/NorRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5280 days ago 47 posts - 55 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Icelandic Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 11 14 June 2010 at 5:15am | IP Logged | ||
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i just wanna say, i love the sound of Icelandic and i agree 100% with kottoler.ello, i
especially like "the ability to communicate with the Norse gods in a tongue they will understand". that's why i started learning it, but i must say i knew it was going to be difficult, but it does seem impossible at times :-P 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5354 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 7 of 11 14 June 2010 at 6:36am | IP Logged | ||
As with many of the Germanic tongues, I have looked at Icelandic a few times, although I have never actually studied it. Below are the things which I have observed or heard, however, so take them only for what they are worth. 1. Of the Germanic tongues, I would say that Icelandic has to me the most difficult to learn. It is a lot more conservative than the other Germanic tongues, and therefore retains a lot of the complexity which has disappeared among the Scandinavian tongues, German, Dutch, etc. In terms of actual difficulty, I believe that it is harder to learn than German, atleast the grammar points appeared a bit more daunting imo. 2. As others have stated, I've also heard that those who can understand Icelandic can also understand the Old Norse texts without difficulty. In terms of cognates, there are bound to be some cognates with German and English, although the vast majority would be with the Scandinavian languages. 3. - 4. Probably not very useful. On the other hand, I believe that it is important to learn a language based on interest rather than usefulness, if one enjoys studying languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 11 14 June 2010 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have one slight correction to the information about the alphabets. It is true that some sources in Old Norse are written in a runic alphabet. In fact the oldest runic inscriptions are written in the forerunner of Old Norse, Proto-Norse, with the inscription on a golden horn from around 400 as the most wellknown: "ek HlewagastiR holtijaR horna tawidō", which according to the Danish Wikipedia would be "Ek Hlégestr Hyltir táða hornit." in Old Norse, "Ég Hlégestur Hyltir gerði hornið" in Icelandic ("I Hlewagastiz from Holt made the horn" in English. The use of runes ebbed out when the Christian religion took over (with its hordes of priesters and monks reading their Bible in Roman letters), but in Dalarne in Sweden they were used sporadically as late as the 20. century ("Dalecarlian runes"), long after the Old Norse period.
However the overwhelming majority of the sagas are not written in runes, but in the writer's personal Roman ortograph. Is that then what you see in books in Old Norse? Nope - almost all editions use a standardized Old Norse orthography that 19. century scholars invented. It is to a large extent based om "the First Treatise, generally dated to the mid-12th century and the first of four grammatical works bound in the Icelandic manuscript Codex Wormianus. According to the Wikipedia article this manuscript also reveals that Old Norse was pronounced with a number of nasal vowels, but these have all been transformed into ordinary 'flat' vowels in modern Icelandic. We only know this because some bright person wrote about it in this manuscript. So essentially everything in Old Norse you see nowadays is normalized, and my guess is that even most Icelanders believe this is how the saga writers actually wrote. Only scholarly editions show the many vagaries of the true old spelling. This phenomenon is b.t.w. not restricted to Old Norse. If you look at authentic Latin inscriptions they are so full of abbreviations that they are all but impossible to understand. Therefore all standard editions of the classics use a normalized Latin spelling, where the abbreviations are spelled out in full. And thanks for that. It makes it much easier to deal with the old texts. --- About intercomprehensibility (or whatever it is called): It is not a problem for Modern Icelanders to understand Old Norse, - even I can read the sagas using my broken Icelandic. But some viking poetry is filled to the brim with obscure allusions that make them difficult to understand, - I suppose a Modern Italian would have the same problems with Dante, and for the same reasons. Furthermore, as a Dane with some knowledge about Norwegian and Swedish I can see many cognates between Icelandic/Old Norse and Danish/Swedish/Norwegian. But often you have to look for almost forgotten or dialectal words in DSN, because the modern languages use loanwords instead of the original ones. Edited by Iversen on 14 June 2010 at 2:01pm 8 persons have voted this message useful |
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