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Chinese v. Mandarin v. Cantonese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6588 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 9 of 47 24 January 2011 at 2:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
HK cinema is much more than just fighting movies (though the fighting movies are pretty awesome; I'm a big fan). See if you can find To Live and Die in Mongkok. That's a spectacularly well-made gangster movie. I wouldn't classify it as a "fighting movie". It's certainly not action, but rather drama. For a lighter movie, try Golden Chicken. It's the life story of a Hong Kong prostitute revealing the history of modern Hong Kong in the process. Of course, Hong Kong cinema has tons of excellent light comedy(Stephen Chow, anyone?), but that might not be what you're looking for. To be honest, the fact is that Hong Kong is a society that expresses itself through film rather than literature. It's also even worse at preserving its old buildings than the rest of China is (you'll find one or two colonial buildings left in Hong Kong; the rest is steel-and-glass skyscrapers). Hong Kong is the most modern place I've ever seen, constantly pushing itself into the future. And books is yesterday's technology. EDIT: Oh, and do see Truth or Dare : 6th Floor Rear Flat. It's hard to describe, but it tells the story of a group of under-accomplished youngsters hanging out in an old apartment. It's about youth, dreams and about taking responsibility for your life. I find it a very touching movie and very well-done, though it suffers occasionally from a bit of mediocre acting (but not so bad it takes the enjoyment out of it), since the actors are all young and unknown. Edited by Ari on 24 January 2011 at 2:15am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5351 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 10 of 47 24 January 2011 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll try to download some of those movies. I already have the DVD of Chungking Express but have not actually watched it. As for other kinds of Hong Kong cinema, I'm not a fan of action movies though.
I take strong issue with this, but that's a topic for another thread. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| wenevy Bilingual Pentaglot Newbie China Joined 5083 days ago 28 posts - 36 votes Speaks: Spanish, Mandarin*, Cantonese*, Catalan, EnglishC1 Studies: French, Italian | Message 11 of 47 26 January 2011 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This afternoon, I saw an interesting picture, It shows the meaning of a china´s map for people who came from beijing, shanghai and canton.
Link removed by newyorkeric. I am cantonese, and i should say this china´s map in the point of view of a cantonese is really true. I am studying abroad, when i meet students from other parts of china, i find that they all know some artists, food, o expressions whiches i have no idea. I think that these culture differences are caused by the languages. In canton, we almost never speak madarin,and mostly, we see hongkong´s films and tv shows whiches are in cantonese. I really have the feeling that Canton(and also hongkong or macao)is a little separete from the rest of china. Edited by newyorkeric on 27 January 2011 at 5:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6665 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 12 of 47 27 January 2011 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If I refer to a language as "Chinese," most people will assume I mean Mandarin.
The boundary between "language" and "dialect" is pretty fuzzy; it seems to have as much to do with politics as language. I don't speak either language, but my understanding is that Mandarin and Cantonese are mutually unintelligible so I personally think of them as separate languages and refer to them that way. If I say Mandarin, I do so to distinguish it from Cantonese and from all other languages that spoken in China and are therefore "Chinese." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Thantophobia Groupie United States Joined 5168 days ago 49 posts - 66 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 13 of 47 27 January 2011 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Wikipedia says:
The term dialect (from the Greek Language word dialektos, Διάλεκτος) is used in two distinct ways, even by linguists. One usage refers to a variety of a language that is a characteristic of a particular group of the language's speakers.[1] The term is applied most often to regional speech patterns, but a dialect may also be defined by other factors, such as social class.[2] A dialect that is associated with a particular social class can be termed a sociolect; a regional dialect may be termed a regiolect or topolect. The other usage refers to a language socially subordinate to a regional or national standard language, often historically cognate to the standard, but not a variety of it or in any other sense derived from it. By both definitions Cantonese is a dialect. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5091 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 14 of 47 28 January 2011 at 2:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
"A dialect that is associated with a particular social class can be termed a sociolect". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M2Htf8iP7Q Representatives discuss issues in parliament in Cantonese. It isn't a language that is being spoken by the lower class. Dialect nowadays means mutually intelligible in general sense. But Cantonese and Mandarin aren't intelligible between each other. Cantonese aren't even intelligible with Min, which is another Southern Chinese languages. Cantonese are just barely intelligible with many of its dialects, such as Hoisanese.... It's just very sad that Cantonese is thought be a dialect of Mandarin when a native Beijing dialect speakers can't even understand a native speaker of Sichuanese, which is a Mandarin dialect. It's just very unfortunate that the same question has been asked like forever and the misconception that "Cantonese is a dialect of Mandarin" keepings going on and even becomes more widespread. 
And this book was published in 1887. 
5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6588 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 15 of 47 28 January 2011 at 5:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
By the first definition Cantonese is a dialect only if you refer to the larger family of Chinese lingualects as a "language". If you refer to it as a language family and to Cantonese as a language (with its own dialects, like Foshan, Guangzhou, Hong Kong etc.), it's the other way around. Thus, the first definition is somewhat useless in defining the status of Cantonese, since we must first define what is a "language". The second definition would make Cantonese a dialect in Mainland China, much like we talk about Italian or German dialects, but not in Hong Kong, where it's not subordinate to a standard Mandarin except in writing. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5454 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 16 of 47 28 January 2011 at 5:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
really? I dare you to show up in certain places and say that Croatian is a dialect of Serbian or vice versa :). I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but I can't not comment on this pulling out of definitions. Why people can't accept that terms 'language' and 'dialect' are political terms as much as linguistic terms, at least in everyday life? I think people should simply be less sensitive about these things and not assume that everyone wants to offend them. We sure mean different things when we say language/dialect, depending on language pair we are talking about: is it Croatian/Serbian, Mandarin/Cantonese, MSA/Egyptian Arabic and so on. Sometimes it is just about practicality. In this forum and this part of the world, if I say I study Mandarin, people know what I'm talking about. If I say that to someone in Serbia (who couldn't care less about language learning), it is quite possible that they would have no idea what I'm talking about. If I say Chinese, they have the idea. Who thinks that Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually intelligible and therefore, Cantonese is, in that sense, 'dialect of Mandarin' - such person is simply uninformed. Who wants to know about languages, they will find out. Who doesn't care which language is spoken in China, they won't care about the details either (but will have some idea of which type of a language you are talking about). If we go strictly by PC I can 'promote' myself to a hexaglot straight away :D. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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