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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5945 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 25 of 31 29 December 2011 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Unfortunately many teachers idea of correction is what's called "delayed correction", which involves giving feedback at the end of the session. It's rarely productive because the students already "know" the correct rule (consciously), and restating the rule after the fact doesn't do anything to correct the erroneous state/processes that caused the error on-the-fly. A quick prod at the time the error is made seems to be the only truly effective feedback. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4843 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 26 of 31 29 December 2011 at 3:27am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Something like that idea of correction "on-the-fly" is what's known now as "Assessment for Learning", which is probably the most important new idea in education in the UK. The idea is that you check progress in different ways throughout the course of a lesson, and adjust the lesson as needed. Research has shown that it is far more effective than what is known as "summative assessment", or assessment done at the end of a topic or even lesson. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5364 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 27 of 31 29 December 2011 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Part of this discussion about forms of correction is founded on the assumption that language learning, and especially grammar, can be reduced to learning a set of rules. I think there is room for debate here about the existence or reality of grammar rules. While there is no doubt that much learning can be based on explicit rules, I would hold that a) much grammar is not rule-based at all and is really just a collection of arbitrary practices and b) exemplar-based learning with good correction can produce excellent results when compared to rule-based learning.
The problem with much rule-based grammar learning is that students get bogged down trying to understand the rules and then applying them. For example, in Spanish attempting to understand the distinction between the verbs SER and ESTAR in terms of rules will only take you so far. Beyond a certain point, you have to accept that the distinction is really purely arbitrary and that most native speakers cannot explain the distinction. You just have to learn a bunch of examples. What I see time and time again is students hesitating while the gears are turning in their head as they try to apply some abstract rule and, more often than not, get the wrong answer. As for people who have learned languages just by exposure, in my observation this can produce excellent results especially in terms of speaking fluency when done under the right conditions. One of the right conditions is some form of immediate correction. I see this all the time in linguistically mixed couples. The results of this spontaneous learning will usually outstrip anything that comes out of a classroom, at least where the spoken language is concerned. Edited by s_allard on 29 December 2011 at 9:54am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6484 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 28 of 31 29 December 2011 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
...which is exactly what you did to me in your last post.
This is not true. I do myself, I've seen others do it, and I've read about it. A few bad experiences shouldn't make you come to that conclusion.
I tend to agree. I would like to add that very few people learn a high percentage of a language in a classroom. There are a few exceptions, but I believe most people who learn a language to a high level acquire it mostly through using the language, which involves self correction. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4843 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 29 of 31 29 December 2011 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
EDIT: I removed my response to this statement. I am through with this particular discussion. Maybe we can all leave this little tangent behind and return to the question of the original post before the thread gets closed. Edited by Jeffers on 29 December 2011 at 10:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5945 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 30 of 31 29 December 2011 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You self-correct by attention -- exposure is not enough. That level of attention is hard to maintain outside of the classroom... but easy to maintain inside the classroom if you've got a good teacher. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6484 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 31 of 31 31 December 2011 at 6:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
When you said
I assumed you meant that people don't self-correct outside the classroom. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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