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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5888 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 137 of 261 17 October 2012 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
This parallel verstehen <-> understand would be exactly my argument to continue this discussion. I'm happy you've already posted it :-) In the book "Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Deutschen" it is said that the Old English word forstanden had a meaning close to verstehen. In Duden online we can read that verstehen also means 'mit jemandem gut auskommen, ein gutes Verhältnis haben' and this may also give us an idea about the development of the concepts that this verb comprises. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4834 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 138 of 261 18 October 2012 at 12:35am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, like "we understand one another", or "we have a good understanding between ourselves", sort of thing. Anyway, I was just going to add, for what it's worth, that Danish: forstå (forstod, forstået) means "understand". and you won't be surprised to learn that "stå" means "stand". So, not so far from OE "forstanden". But I wonder how modern English ended up with "under"-stand? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4834 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 139 of 261 18 October 2012 at 12:46am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I don't know how good this source is, but:
Etymological Dictionary offers some ideas. Edit: "comprehend" comprehend I don't know if this adds much, as it seems to come directly from Latin. Edited by montmorency on 18 October 2012 at 12:49am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5232 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 140 of 261 18 October 2012 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Actually, my native Spanish 'comprender' and 'entender' are compounds too. Since they're taken almost directly from Latin it also applies there.
Is 'understanding' such a complex concept that no early language had a non-affixed word for it? Amazing... (I'm sure some language WILL have such a thing, but the thought is still funny) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5888 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 141 of 261 18 October 2012 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I'm neither a professional nor a student of linguistics, but comparing this site with some books I have, it seems to be a reliable source.
The ver- prefix in German comes from various sources (this for in Danish must come from some of the same source) and some seem to carry the meaning of under too. We need help of a native speaker or a linguist here :-))
As you know, we also have compreender and entender as possible translation of verstehen in Portuguese, but compreender cannot be used in the sense of 'mit jemandem gut auskommen, ein gutes Verhältnis haben' (although you can 'compreender alguém') but entender also carries this meaning.
Indeed, this could be a nice topic to some other subforum here. Maybe you could open it! Edited by Flarioca on 18 October 2012 at 11:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4834 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 142 of 261 19 October 2012 at 1:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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A quick run down the vocab in my TYS Danish shows that all (I think) the "for-" verbs that correspond to German verbs correspond to German "ver-" verbs.
(e.g. "forsvinde" - disappear). (On the other hand, some nouns and adjectives that begin "for-" correspond to German "vor-" nouns and adjectives). (e.g. "forsigtig" - cautious, careful, gentle). (but not all, e.g. "forfatter" - author (c.f. "Verfasser"). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4850 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 143 of 261 19 October 2012 at 9:34am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
In Icelandic and Faroese, it's 'skilja'. Both languages are derived from Old Norse, so obviously Old Norse didn't have a prefixed word for 'understand'. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4713 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 144 of 261 19 October 2012 at 10:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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So, Josquin, do you know of an old Swedish word that was later replaced by förstå?
And what about the Slavic languages, for example понимать/понять? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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