Spinchäeb Ape Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4472 days ago 146 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, German
| Message 17 of 33 11 December 2012 at 3:00am | IP Logged |
LittleBoy wrote:
I'm a native British English speaker and I think I would say "sikth", as Jeffers observed. I'd also go for "fith", certainly when talking quickly/not concentrating on enunciation. At most I would half say the "ks" or "f", I don't think I ever fully say "siksth" and "fifth". |
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I always pronounce the 2nd f in fifth, but I've heard plenty of people leave it out. Since I made my post, I've heard some other Americans pronounce sixth like sikss.
I've also noticed people leaving out the t sound in interesting. It sounds like inneresting. It kind of would drive always me crazy because I pronounce the t, but then I noticed myself leaving out the first e, as in intresting.
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MixedUpCody Senior Member United States Joined 5258 days ago 144 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin
| Message 18 of 33 11 December 2012 at 3:54am | IP Logged |
Spinchäeb Ape wrote:
I've also noticed people leaving out the t sound in interesting. It sounds like inneresting. It kind of would drive always me crazy because I pronounce the t, but then I noticed myself leaving out the first e, as in intresting. |
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You should really look into phonology. The /t/ example in English is particularly well represented in phonology research. The mental object /t/ is represented by 5 different sounds in American English. The example you noted is the glottal stop [ʔ], the same sound is found in standard American pronunciation of mountain: /mauntɛn/ is realized as [mauʔn].
/t/ in American English is also realized as an unreleased [t ̚], an aspirated [tʰ], and an unaspirated [t].
It is a particularly difficult question to get native speakers who haven't had phonetics/phonology training to answer, because they are unaware that they are saying something other than a /t/. Or, more frequently, they'll say that it is just a different way of saying the same sound, even though the sounds might be considered wildly different in different languages.
Having an awareness of this phenomena is also key to acquiring accents, since native speakers will notice if you say something differently, even though they are unaware of how they, themselves, say it.
EDIT: Fixed IPA mistake.
Edited by MixedUpCody on 11 December 2012 at 4:04am
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WoofCreature Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 4528 days ago 80 posts - 118 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: German, Portuguese, Norwegian
| Message 19 of 33 11 December 2012 at 5:22am | IP Logged |
Hmm, I pronounce it as 'sixt'. I also pronounce fifth as 'fift'. Perhaps it is a regional variation? But I do pronounce the 'th' on fourth, seventh, eighth, and so on.
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Spinchäeb Ape Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4472 days ago 146 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, German
| Message 20 of 33 11 December 2012 at 7:21am | IP Logged |
MixedUpCody wrote:
Spinchäeb Ape wrote:
I've also noticed people leaving out the t sound in interesting. It sounds like inneresting. It kind of would drive always me crazy because I pronounce the t, but then I noticed myself leaving out the first e, as in intresting. |
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You should really look into phonology. The /t/ example in English is particularly well represented in phonology research. The mental object /t/ is represented by 5 different sounds in American English. The example you noted is the glottal stop [ʔ], the same sound is found in standard American pronunciation of mountain: /mauntɛn/ is realized as [mauʔn].
/t/ in American English is also realized as an unreleased [t ̚], an aspirated [tʰ], and an unaspirated [t].
It is a particularly difficult question to get native speakers who haven't had phonetics/phonology training to answer, because they are unaware that they are saying something other than a /t/. Or, more frequently, they'll say that it is just a different way of saying the same sound, even though the sounds might be considered wildly different in different languages.
Having an awareness of this phenomena is also key to acquiring accents, since native speakers will notice if you say something differently, even though they are unaware of how they, themselves, say it.
EDIT: Fixed IPA mistake. |
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I have noticed some differences in T pronunciation that I think you're alluding to. Americans don't really fully pronounce the T in "water." It's more like "wadder." However, for "thirteen" we do pronounce it, but I've noticed Australians don't, or at least the Aussies I've heard don't. They say it like "thirdeen."
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MixedUpCody Senior Member United States Joined 5258 days ago 144 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin
| Message 21 of 33 11 December 2012 at 7:38am | IP Logged |
Spinchäeb Ape wrote:
I have noticed some differences in T pronunciation that I think you're alluding to. Americans don't really fully pronounce the T in "water." It's more like "wadder." However, for "thirteen" we do pronounce it, but I've noticed Australians don't, or at least the Aussies I've heard don't. They say it like "thirdeen." |
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Yea, that is one of the five ways the American /t/ is realized. It is an alveolar tap. It is actually the same sound as the Spanish r. In Most American's speech "writer" and "rider" are pronounced exactly the same.
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tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4667 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian
| Message 22 of 33 11 December 2012 at 1:41pm | IP Logged |
I pronounce it "sixth." But I do leave out the second "f" in "fifth," making it "fith."
MixedUpCody wrote:
In Most American's speech "writer" and "rider" are pronounced exactly the same. |
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The words contain the exact same sounds for me, but when I say them, the first vowel in "rider" is definitely longer than the first vowel in "writer."
Interesting. I wonder if I say any other word pairs like that...
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mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5926 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish
| Message 23 of 33 11 December 2012 at 9:46pm | IP Logged |
tastyonions wrote:
I pronounce it "sixth." But I do leave out the second "f" in "fifth," making it "fith." |
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Same here, but I had never thought about how I pronounced "fifth" before.
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sammymcgoff Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4365 days ago 40 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish
| Message 24 of 33 17 December 2012 at 2:11pm | IP Logged |
The "th" in sixth pronounced with a similar sound to the letter F in English. The only
other language I've heard with this sound is Greek, so it isn't surprising that most
English students having difficulties saying it.
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