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Pronunciation of worm | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4620 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 14 03 January 2013 at 10:17am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm a lowland Scot and pronounce "worm" as if there is a short vowel between the last two letters. Something
like wu-rum. Is there a technical name for the habit of inserting imaginary vowels between pairs of consonants? The Irish do something similar with "film" - it comes out as fil-um. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 2 of 14 03 January 2013 at 10:35am | IP Logged | ||
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I think the technical name you are looking for is epenthesis, which means the addition of one or more sounds to a word. More specifically, when a vowel is added it is also called anaptyxis or svarabhakti.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 14 03 January 2013 at 10:59am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah. The latter is what Dutch people term it. In Dutch, it's a common phenomenon
actually, and is especially dependent on how the letters r and l are pronounced. In Dutch, I believe the standard is that you can either add or leave the vowel as it is (the exceptions are between r/l and s/t afterwards, those never get an extra syllable). I personally add the extra syllable (it's how I pronounce my own name, even, which leads to a lot of confusion for people, since apart from my family my friends pronounce the "r" in my name in an almost English way). For example, in Dutch I would say "Melluk" as opposed to "melk", "fillum" as opposed to "film", "parruk" as opposed to "park". The reason is that before these letters I trill the r, and the only way to comfortably pronounce the r before a consonant is to add a little schwa sound to ease pronunciation. It works equally well if you trill the r a la Spanish; my mother uses that pronunciation for example. In fact, a week or so ago I called up a friend and said "Hoi, met Jorn" rendering my name as I usually do and she thought she was talking to a stranger ("I don't know any Joran..."). It took a while to explain to her that this is actually how I always pronounce my name; in introductions by other people, the version without the schwa is used. But because my family uses it with the extra vowel, I respond much better to "Jorrun" than I do to "Jorn". It leads to a lot of questions how my name is actually spelled because of my pronunciation. Edited by tarvos on 03 January 2013 at 11:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 4 of 14 03 January 2013 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Why? It is probably true for Dutch but in other languages such combinations are pronounced. In Russian we pronounce государств and доказательств without adding any vowels. Йорн will be pronounced as one syllable. But we usually insert vowels when r, l are after a consonant at the end of a word: метр, литр, Карл, тигр. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 5 of 14 03 January 2013 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I know. But in Dutch that is how you do it. It is easier to pronouce it with the schwa.
And the schwa-insertion is never counted officially as an extra syllable in Dutch either - it just gives off the appearance of there being an actual extra syllable. My name is still one syllable in Dutch (a good thing too, or else it wouldn't be my name). Edited by tarvos on 03 January 2013 at 12:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5830 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 6 of 14 03 January 2013 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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With respect Tarvos, that is how you do it, but do all Dutch people add the extra letter? If so, why is there confusion over your name, such as in the example you gave when on the phone?
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 14 03 January 2013 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's completely accepted by the linguistic authorities in the country. Whether you do
it or not is dependent on the dialect and how the r is pronounced in the region you live in. In the western part of the country, the r is often not trilled and even dropped at the ends of syllables, or as in Leiden, pronounced as in English (bekakt). My friends do not use this dialect because where I live, close to the Hague and Rotterdam, the tendency is to not use that r at all. Keep in mind, in the Netherlands these types vary by region a lot more. Dutch is more homogeneous than it was 50 or 100 years ago, and it's very standardised in writing, but in practice, pronunciation varies a LOT. My parents are from completely different areas of the country and I was raised with the pronunciation where you trill the r (my mother does the alveolar version, I used a uvular trill because until recently I could not pronounce the alveolar version). All these different pronunciations are accepted as standard. (Dutch can use up to 5 different sounds for r depending on who the speaker is). Edited by tarvos on 03 January 2013 at 2:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 8 of 14 03 January 2013 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | ||
I wonder how the alveolar trill survives, is such a spread sound and hasn't become an uvular trill everywhere. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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