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Status of Breton | ||
Tags: Breton | Celtic languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4624 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 14 08 January 2013 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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The Breton language seems to have suffered a catastrophic fall in post-war times. As recently as 1950, there
were still one million native speakers but that has fallen to 200,000 today, the majority of whom are elderly people. That does not bode well for the future. The slump seems to have set in relatively late in comparison to other Celtic tongues. Scots and Irish Gaelic were already seriously in decline at the start of the 20th century, yet Breton was still widespread in its heartland at this time. Edited by beano on 08 January 2013 at 9:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Astrophel Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5734 days ago 157 posts - 345 votes Speaks: English*, Latin, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Cantonese, Polish, Sanskrit, Cherokee | Message 2 of 14 08 January 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well in that case, maybe it's just relatively late to pick back up too :)
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5128 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 3 of 14 08 January 2013 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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Two years ago when I was studying at the University of Wales I've been told by my good Cornish friend who knew students from the departmant of Celtic studies that there are only three native speakers of Breton among the students in the whole University. If I remember correctly two of them studied language and history. When I accidentaly met one of them in the library; my friend who was with me told me that the girl is Breton; I was so filled with joy that I couldn't helped asking her to start speaking in Breton about anything she pleases. She was a bit confused but hey :) I got to hear Breton live.
Edit: In my opinion Breton could be revived (Welsh style) Cornish on the other hand is pretty much dying. Edited by Gosiak on 08 January 2013 at 10:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5567 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 4 of 14 08 January 2013 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Given Cornish was an extinct language 100 years ago, it appears to be growing rather
than dying. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4709 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 5 of 14 08 January 2013 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Breton could be revived, yes. But that would require the French government to stop
failing at life. I am pessimistic, but I'm doing my best to become a brittophone. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| akkadboy Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5410 days ago 264 posts - 497 votes Speaks: French*, English, Yiddish Studies: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Welsh | Message 6 of 14 09 January 2013 at 9:59am | IP Logged | ||
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Another problem is : which Breton should be taught ?. A more or less popular/spoken by native Breton or a united, modernized version of it ?
In the pre-WWII era, Breton nationalists "created" a kind of new, pan-dialectal Breton whose goal was to unite Bretons and to be as pure as possible from any French influence. Even if Breton nationalism isn't that much strong today, this ideology of a "pure" Breton still underlies most of the official policies geared towards the teaching and the modernisation of the language. Hence, new words are coined from Medieval/Breton Welsh roots so that the word borrowed from French should not be used (even if it had come to assume a slightly different meaning in Breton). On the other hand, lots of things are copied from French (the use of "thank you", the greetings...). The result is a strange situation where native speakers are seen/used/advertised as a token of a prestigious Celtic past and at the same time their Breton is despised as unpolished, loaded with French words. More often than not the new-Breton is not readily (if at all) understandable by native speakers of the language. What is produced and taught today is often (not always of course) something thought in French and "disguised" in a Celtic garment. A good example of this is the Breton Wikipedia where anything written in Breton as spoken by native speakers is deleted and replaced by "Standard Breton". Edited by akkadboy on 09 January 2013 at 11:10am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4624 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 7 of 14 09 January 2013 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | ||
Which probably breeds resentment among the long-standing native Breton speakers. This attempt to purge Breton of excessive Frenchness is absurd. Of course Breton has borrowed heavily from French over the years! Breton is spoken on a small penisula on the edge of a huge French-speaking territory and has changed and adapted as any other language would. Edited by beano on 09 January 2013 at 3:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| akkadboy Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5410 days ago 264 posts - 497 votes Speaks: French*, English, Yiddish Studies: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Welsh | Message 8 of 14 09 January 2013 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't know, the situation is complex. Most of the native speakers are middle-aged/old rural people so usually they do not have much contact with the official new-Breton world. And there's also the fact that Breton speakers were told for decades (at school, in other parts of France, in the army,...) that their language wasn't a "true" language, that they should speak French and so on. So lots of them tend to downplay their Breton and accept that educated people, people who took courses know better about Breton. It could almost be said (and some do think) that today there are two different Bretons, the dialects of the native speakers, less taught and slowly dying and the new-Breton whose differences with the dialects are either denied or advertised as a necessity since dialects are corrupted and unrefined. But of course not all learners are aware of that. Most of them don't know about the ideological background of these questions and truly believe that they are learning the same language their grand-parents spoke. Others know well that they are not learning/speaking the same language than the native speakers but are ok with that since they want to learn a "pure" Breton. You can find easily on the internet (maybe less easily now that the forum Brezhoneg ar bobl has been shut down) stories of native speakers taking part in a Breton class and leaving or being dismissed because the children/students could not understand them. Of course I am not saying that everything taught and printed these days is "false" Breton and that, on the other hand, every native speaker has a perfect command of Breton and should be blindly imitated. Likewise not every student/teacher of new-Breton is a hidden nationalist with a secret agenda. But I think it's useful to know a bit about these questions if one wants to learn a Breton that is respectful of what the language is today among native speakers, especially since conscious adepts of new-Breton tend to reject the word "new-Breton" and claim that they possess the only authentic Breton. Edited by akkadboy on 09 January 2013 at 5:30pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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