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| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 9 of 102 24 January 2009 at 11:14pm | IP Logged |
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My French studies have languished somewhat, no longer having any structured program to follow. I've mostly been watching things in French or occasionally playing a computer game.
On Thursday I attended a weekly French table sort of gathering. It was rather painful. I could follow most of the conversation, but whenever I was asked a question or such (which was really quite nice of them) I could only haltingly stutter out a rather tragic attempt at a reply. Unless it was a question that I could answer "Oui" to, in which case I did. I had wanted to attend this weeks earlier, but was waiting until I made some grand attempt to improve my spoken French (my ability to speak French, like the ability to write it, having been wholly ignored), but since that hadn't happened, I figured I may as well just go anyway. So I think I'll have to try some way to improve my speaking ability for next time. I'm not sure what I'll do; maybe I'll try shadowing Assimil or something. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 10 of 102 22 February 2009 at 5:40am | IP Logged |
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I've begun reading Les Trois Mousquetaires, as prompted by the book club thing. I've formally decided to read at least 30 minutes per day, which I began officially on the 9th, and so as been going for nearing two weeks--and I have read but 60 pages. As my edition has 700 pages, this would suggest that the task would take--in rough terms--forever. It has gotten easier to read as I've continued, although I don't know how much of that has to do with the text; I found the last part I read, containing the first swordfight, to be rather easy or at the least, very engaging.
I attended once again the French table. There were only two people there, and they came one after another, so I had some one-on-one conversation. It was probably helpful that both of them had experience in education. The second guy was great, though; if I didn't understand what he said, he'd do whatever he could to help me figure it out, giving examples and explaining in other terms and such (sometimes I just didn't understand what words he was saying--it took me a while to figure out "début", which is a perfectly reasonable word). Although I won't put much stake in the assessment, they both thought my French was good given the length of my study, and were impressed that I had managed to stick with it alone. Regardless of anything else, it's nice to hear things like that at least occasionally; it let's me know I must be doing something right (indeed, my spoken French shouldn't be very good at all, given that was but my second chance at conversation in it). I did notice myself using some rather German-like syntax in places, though. I'll have to pay attention to this in the future. In addition, I've been watching some Disney movies in French. I've found them to be a rather excellent resource, since they're pretty entertaining and reasonably understandable if I'm actually paying attention, and the voicing is generally quite excellent. I've watched (or at least had on and listened to while watching sporadically) The Lion King probably about 10 times in the past couple weeks. I still find it to be a pretty good movie. So, I'll keep on reading, keep on listening to things, and keep on improving in my faculties (or so should occur). Although I haven't, I still think shadowing might be helpful for improving my speaking. (I once again notice how much I tend to write...) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 11 of 102 05 March 2009 at 2:55am | IP Logged |
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I've decided that I will stick with Les Trois Mousquetaires. I am not sure yet that I'll finish it--it still is rather a lot--but I'll definitely continue (actually, given the type of person I am, I almost definitely will finish it). Actually, I should have a bunch of free time to use towards it (it's the way all the cool people spend spring break, I hear). I'm 150 pages through right now, which is something I'm proud of. I've noticed my reading speed increase, at least when I'm coherent; sometimes I've reached at least 4 minutes per page (which sounds slow still, but it's progress).
I don't know what I'll read after that, though; I think I'd rather it not be quite so long, so I can have the nice feeling of finishing the book a bit sooner. If anyone reads this, and has a good suggestion for something entertaining, feel free to provide it. I have access to a pretty big library. Actually, today I guess the second person I told I was reading this book in French said that they were impressed, and said (as well as made the gesture) that they gave me a tip of their hat. Which is really weird, since I got the the same thing from the first one (although he said it in French). It's just bizarre... Also, each time I've gone to the French table has been easier. It's rather a lot of fun, I've found, and even though I worry about cementing errors in my French, it's too fun to pass up, I guess. I'm considering putting less essential things after paragraphs between braces. Sometimes rambling makes me feel bad. Although I doubt this is widely read--shorter, more frequent postings seem to be the rage nowadays. Can't be asked to climb walls of text, or put up with constant irrelevance; that's what it's coming to with the younger generation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7010 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 12 of 102 05 March 2009 at 3:53am | IP Logged |
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Heh, check out my log sometime :) Nothing but long ramblings .. I mostly used the TAC logs to get my thoughts in order. I didn't really care who else was reading them, it was mostly a tool for me to make sure I kept on with my French studies knowing that I was supposed to be writing about them.
As for reading suggestions, I had a lot of fun reading translations of books I enjoyed when I was a kid: The Hobbit, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Dragons of Autumn Twilight. I forced myself to read "Harry Potter" and "The Da Vinci Code", but didn't really enjoy either of them. I've been trying to stay away from the "Great Classics of Literature", because I figure "Hey, If I don't read that kind of book in English, why would I enjoy it in French?" I still have a couple of French non-fiction books a translation of Neuromancer sitting on my shelf waiting to be read, so there's certainly stuff out there. Just find something that excites you, something that you _want_ to read, and second look for something in French. Edited by dmg on 05 March 2009 at 2:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ExtraLean Triglot Senior Member France languagelearners.myf Joined 5993 days ago 897 posts - 880 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 13 of 102 05 March 2009 at 2:10pm | IP Logged |
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First of all, Kids these days don't know what's good for them. Besides, longer posts are more interesting. Helps me get to know the gorilla behind the nukes; which is what I prefer. I really don't care if people have done one more MT lesson. Even if I put it into my own log sometimes. So stick with the big posts, quality over quantity. Just up the quantity.
I finished Les Trois Mousquetaires a little while ago, it warrants a tipping of the hat. The best thing about the book is that you can look back and go: "I finished the bastard". It also gets alot better, imo, the further you get into it. I liked the book Tricours recommended to me 'Attentat' by Northcombe or something. It's in my log somewhere too. But I second dmg's advice about reading what you'd read in English. I'm eyeing off the translation of Dresden Files...cos it is just awesome... If i could find an ebook archive which isn't out dated i'd be happy too... Keep up the good work, et bonne continuation. Thom. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 14 of 102 09 June 2009 at 11:32am | IP Logged |
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With regards to the above discussion on rambling: I shall never stop rambling, should anyone be listening or not. It will help to hasten me in my journey to being a bitter old man.
I believe the stop in my posting here roughly corresponds to a stoppage, or at least a deintensification, or my studies. I stopped Les Trois Mousquetaires at roughly 200 pages, although I was getting a bit back into it before the library demanded it back. (Apparently they think 3 months is enough...) To be honest, though, it may have been that impending deadline that spurred that. I'll come to finish it at some point, I think. My excuse for my slowing studies, which is always necessary to show that I was of course justified and not actually responsible for my failings, was being busy with schoolwork. Actually, it was pretty much entirely spent on a throwaway drawing class, but I wanted to make pretty things, so I put way more time in than was necessary. But now there's no more schoolwork for the foreseeable future, and no art classes. I'm on a bit of a book binge with English books at the moment, which seems like a summerish thing for me to do. The problem I come up with at the suggestion of "read what you would read in English" is that I'll largely read non-fiction. Not that I don't enjoy fiction on occasion. But non-fiction seems to be quite a bit more challenging, especially compared to light fiction. So some light, engaging fiction seemed to be a good idea. I got much further in Les Trois Mousquetaires than I did in Les Empereurs Romains (or somesuch). Maybe I should look into it some more, though. In any case, the past few months my French studies have consisted generally of occasional French music and movies, as well as only lately some computer games (I can learn interesting, if not useful in a general sense, vocabulary from SimCity 4, I guess). And so most recently, I was reading a Tony Robbins book it looks like (based on the bookmark and thickness of dust layer) my father stopped reading a third through some years ago, and decided that I was wasting time, and that one thing that I wanted was to learn French. So, in a fit of action, I unplugged my TV (which I only watch when visiting my parents but is probably symbolic of useless distraction) and decided to reignite the smoldering wood pile. I still don't have too much of a concrete reason to learn French, but I want to learn it, and so damn the mules I shall. And so, since this is a language log (in name at least) rather than a place for autobiographical ramblings (which I seem to prefer), I will mention that at the moment I've recommenced my efforts by rejoining the French in Action program roughly where I abandoned it, since it probably did me more good than I realize. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what else I'm doing, but I believe it should include some manner of shadowing or repeated listening, this being something I've mentioned previously that I thought would be beneficial without acting on such. Hmm... does anyone know of any good biographies in French? Of worthwhile people of course, "geniuses". It seems like it could be a good way to bridge a gap between fiction and non-fiction, simply because I assume the vocabulary would generally be less technical. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 15 of 102 14 June 2009 at 3:20am | IP Logged |
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J'ai réussi à trouver un livre que je peux (et veux) lire; il est un livre de la question de reformer l'orthographe français. Il est un peu vieux, mais pas trop (de 1993). J'ai lu le avant-propos et il me semble que il est d'un niveau approprié pour moi.
J'ai aussi retrouvé Les Trois Mousquetaires, mais je ne suis pas sûr que je le lirai, car j'ai plusieurs autres livres que je voudrais lire. Et une demande: dans le bibliothèque je voyait livres qui s'appelaient "dictionnaires des difficultés du français". Qu'est-ce que ce sont, exactement? (J'aurai vu moi même, mais, je n'ai pas fait.) Je n'en ai jamais vu pour l'Anglais. Est-ce que Français est si difficile, ou que les francophones ont envie d'être précises en cataloguer leur langue? Je veux étudier suédois maintenant. Je ne sais pas bien pourquoi, mais il y a d'attraction pour ce langue. Ce n'est pas probablement une bonne idée, mais... (I decided to write this post in French. I hope that much was clear.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NuclearGorilla Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6785 days ago 166 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Japanese, French | Message 16 of 102 02 July 2009 at 11:01am | IP Logged |
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I've been in a bit of a "lull" I suppose lately; daily I've been watching roughly one episode each of French in Action and some French TV. I've only arrived at the third chapter of the book on French orthography, it having been long enough since I last opened it that I do not recall if I was starting this chapter, or had finished it.
This situation is somewhat contradictory of the assessment I had made regarding my study: I noted that the main reason I had begun to learn French was for the sake of reading, and that perhaps I should simply focus on that from a time efficiency standpoint. Alas, I have acted in the opposite direction. Why? That's a question worthy of an answer, but I don't have such a one. Of course, to merely read the language could never satisfy me, for the same reason that learning just French (and whatever n languages) could never satiate my linguistic rapacity. Well, really, it boils down to that I'm never to be satisfied with my present level of knowledge and it is always to be necessary that I strive to learn about whatever various topics strike my fancy. It just happens that I find languages fanciful. I made a realization that was somewhat revealing. I think I like languages for some of the same reasons I enjoy good conspiracy theories. They're essentially arbitrary; if you look to a sufficient depth, everything appears to be able to be explained; and with this, they are self-consistent, but are usually not consistent with surrounding realities. I've begun in this past week to start on Heisig's Remembering the Kanji. I have difficulty explaining this one, in light of how I'm not entirely sure I'd like to study Japanese. But I kind of would, and have felt roughly this way for a while. From a perspective of return on investment, I imagine it's an attrocious idea, but this never seems to be a primary motivator for me. Part of the draw is, I believe, a great fascination with the script. I've looked on written Japanese (as well as Chinese, although less often) and felt a sense of both awe and confusion; an intrigue as to how people can actually read it. And I believe that is the sense of wonder that has carried my smoldering desire to learn this language. As far as the quantitative measurements: I've gone through #450 since starting apparently 6 days ago. I've been disappointed in the past two days with my inability to properly focus, thus limiting me to 50 each of these days. I may well however do an additional some number before retiring, although it seems unlikely. I'll just have to do 200-300 tomorrow to make up for it, which is of course a perfectly reasonable thing to do. (Actually, I find this activity fairly enjoyable, and the only thing stopping me from doing more is an inability to focus long enough and the desire to advance other endeavors.) I am amused by the direction this went, however. I wanted to study Swedish, but then settled on Japanese because ___. Fill in the blank however you like, it doesn't really make any sense. (Personally I'd recommend trying it like madlibs, and come up with something hilarious, but this would require a bit more effort, since "because ___(reason)" alone doesn't provide enough structure. How about "because ___(noun) thought that ___(action) would be a more ___ (adj) use of ___ (noun)." Of course, I can't fill in that template to come up with a reasonable answer to my self-directed statement, hopefully you can come up with something fantastic and delightful to suit your own purposes.) I wish there were automatic statistics kept on posts. At least number of words. And I could sort my posts in such an order, see an average number, etc. But I just love statistics like that. Useless numbers are neat. I'm trying to think of some sort of fairly objective measure of progress in a language. I have an idea I'd like to try, but it will require some way to gauge ability in a language. Ideally something that would work for multiple languages. Maybe I'll interrogate in another area of the fora. I hope any readers enjoy stream-of-consciousness journal entries with various tangents, because otherwise you would have just spent time doing something you didn't enjoy and really had little reason to do otherwise. I hope this can be a wake up call if this was the case. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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