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The importance of a good accent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 33 of 255 12 December 2010 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I just took an oral Spanish test the other day at the university, and my professor told me that my pronunciation and accent need work, but that I was (a) quite understandable and (b) had a better speaking command than many of my peers, who have better pronunciation and less accent. My professor was also of the opinion that this setup was better than that of my peers, as perfect accent and pronunciation does not get one far, if it is not backed by vocabulary, grammar, etc.
I totally agree with him. I've spoken my share of Spanish and German with people, and although I clearly have an accent in both (my German accent is non-American but also non-German, whereas my Spanish accent is more American), as long as it does not hinder communication, then there is not much of a problem imo. For this reason, I never aim for a perfect accent, but one that is good enough for people to understand, as I could be using my time learning more words or something. Although I have heard hundreds of English accents, I find that typically they do not hinder my ability to understand the speaker, if the speaker is fluent in English in every other way. The only exception I can think of is a Chinese finance professor who pronounced words such as "Star Bucks" as "Stall boss" Then again, I've only had this problem if the person's pronunciation was way out of the ballpark. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 34 of 255 12 December 2010 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Fine, but when does that happen? Have you ever met anyone with perfect or near-perfect accent and pronunciation but poor vocabulary and grammar? I haven't. And I used to teach French so I've met hundreds of students. The reason is that a good accent is usually either an indication of a higher level or a boost to reach a higher level of fluency. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 35 of 255 13 December 2010 at 4:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I see this as being a real situation or possibility. I do agree with what some say, that people with good accents are perceived as being fluent in a language (whether they are or aren't) whereas those who have thicker accents are perceived as being less fluent. These are perceptions and stereotypes, however, and I don't believe it for a minute that there is a large correlation between accent and level of fluency. Some people just have an easier time picking up accents than others. Someone could learn a few phrases and mimic Pimsleur with a perfect accent, but their grammar could be pants, and their vocabulary virtually non existant. Likewise, I've heard plenty of people who have good grammar and vocabulary, but just can't nail the accent for whatever the reason, whether they are too old to pick it up or whatever. True, some people do strive to improve their accents, while working towards fluency, and others naturally pick it up from the start. Not really a good measure of fluency, though people do perceive it to measure fluency. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5449 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 36 of 255 13 December 2010 at 5:29am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I guess it happens whenever a good actor starts learning a language :). Anyway, although good accent/bad everything else is a rare situation, the opposite is quite common. There are so many people who have foreign accent but near-native mastery of a language in all other aspects. I'd say this just shows how much the accent, unlike other aspects of a language, depends on some kind of a talent. This doesn't mean native accent is not achievable through hard work, as well, but it is quite understandable why people, who are fully functional in a language otherwise, don't see any need, motivation or justification for that hard work. I'm also still to meet natives who automatically slow down their speech when they hear foreign accent (and by foreign I mean 'not a native one', not 'not an understandable one'). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5274 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 37 of 255 13 December 2010 at 7:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well it's obvious that accent taps into different resources than vocabulary acquisition or grammar. Vocabulary acquisition is largely a matter of memory, grammar internalization a combination of memory, operation of an algorithm to a particular root, and composition of various pieces into a coherent whole. Accent, on the other hand, is about listening very carefully and repeatedly modifying breathing, tongue, jaw, and lip position so as to accurately reproduce the sound that is being heard. For this reason, pronunciation can be (near) perfect even for a beginner, if he or she is listening carefully enough and is attuned to the sounds. A rich vocabulary and a functional and internalized grammar, on the other hand, requires a lot of time, practice, and exposure, unless one has an eidetic memory. I believe that cultivation of a near native accent early on has great benefits later. Every time I've made a modification in my Spanish pronunciation, it's required conscious effort at first to correct the error, but now it's all second nature. So I am 100% in agreement with Arekkusu on this. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 38 of 255 13 December 2010 at 7:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||
http://www.readingsuccesslab.com/Capturing_Phonemes_from_Bir th.htm If we lose the ability to hear certain sounds, how is a near perfect outcome possible? I do not think that it is always necessarily about listening carefully. Edited by tracker465 on 13 December 2010 at 7:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5274 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 39 of 255 13 December 2010 at 7:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
People say this but I do not believe it. The adult human brain is incredibly plastic. Less than a child's, but still remarkably so. Adults have had brain surgery with large sections of the brain cut out and rewiring of circuits has enabled reconstitution of function. I am convinced that any person with a normal hearing system should be able to distinguish sounds. He only needs to understand that there is a distinction in sounds that may at first sound identical to him and perhaps someone to point him in the right direction regarding positioning of the sound-producing structures. To give you an example, as a child I was having great difficulty making the distinction between the Serbian sounds č and ć, and đ and dž. Perhaps this was partly because my father himself does not make any distinction (as his mother tongue is Slovenian, actually, which only has the č sound), so the only input I was getting regarding a distinction in these sounds was from my mother, who didn't know how to explain the differing mechanics in how they are produced. Things only clicked when I visited Bangladesh when I was 16 and started taking Bengali lessons. There I learned all the intricacies of retroflex and dental consonants and started playing around with my tongue and palate a bit. It was only then that I made the connection that the difference between č and ć, and đ and dž, lies not in airflow or volume but in tongue positioning, and the dental/retroflex dichotomy in Bengali helped me see that. When I came back from Bangladesh, my Serbian consonants were finally correct. Learning introductory Bengali also helped me get the Spanish dentals d and t right, whereas in high school Spanish I had been making d and t alveolar, as they are in English and Serbian. No doubt someone else would be able to pronounce Spanish d and t correctly from the beginning, but my case required a perspective imparted from a 4th language that exaggerated the distinctions between these consonants and thereby helped point out the importance of proper pronunciation of the same in other languages I know or am learning. Clearly, all of these phonemic changes happened way after the "critical period." Thus, I believe that it is possible to consciously iron out pronunciation errors given practice and an understanding of the differing mechanics between the sounds that are being otherwise confused. Maybe we cannot acquire perfect accents therefrom, but we can certainly approach that asymptote by constantly examining and re-examining our speech and comparing to what we hear native speakers say and modifying it on this basis. Edited by Merv on 13 December 2010 at 7:34am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5449 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 40 of 255 13 December 2010 at 7:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||
well, if that's what makes you happy, then that's fine. :) But if I spend less hours positioning my lips and more hours on vocab and grammar, in order to be able to spend a monolingual week in Argentina earlier (without anyone slowing down their speech for me :) ), then I fail to see how is that a bad thing (or in any way worse than what you do). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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