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Enduring criticism of the self-study mthd | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5367 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 17 of 36 17 December 2010 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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This reminds me of an article I read this week in the paper about introducing Ojibwe classes, an aboriginal language, in a few primary schools. I also remember that my first thought was "none of those kids will ever speak Ojibwe, anyway". It's a very negative thing to say, but I can't imagine a grade 4 level, part-time class ever getting a kid to speak any language, let alone a polysynthetic language. Edited by Arekkusu on 17 December 2010 at 8:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6128 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 18 of 36 17 December 2010 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree -- that's just like me in my Japanese class. I've found the material we're covering this year to be far too easy (I thought that skipping into the third year class would be a little more challenging than this), so I try to get as much practice with an actual speaker as I can so that it's not a complete waste of my time. My teacher routinely poses a question to the class about how to say something as he's teaching a grammar point, and most of the time I'm one of the only ones to answer, if not the only one. Since no one else is even bothering to try (a lot of them are on their iPods, cell phones, etc for much of the class), I don't view it as hurting the other students, but rather just taking every opportunity I can to practice. Thankfully I sit next to an exchange student from Japan in that class, and she also provided valuable practice this year. My French class last year was similarly pathetic. About midway through the year I finally realized that my teacher wasn't actually going to be doing much actual teaching, so I used my daily French class more as a free period. I would be studying Italian, German, or Swedish a lot of the time during that class was still able to half-listen to my teacher's ramblings which wove in and out of French and answer her questions occasionally. One of the best moments was when I had my Italian book out on the middle of my desk (which was right at the front and center of the classroom anyway, so there was no way she could not have noticed) and was copying down vocabulary and quizzing myself. She asked a question, followed by a long pause, and then I answered while not even looking up from my Italian. She then exclaimed "Why is Philippe the only one paying attention!?" I almost starting laughing out loud right then and there, because it was all too obvious that I wasn't even paying attention. What a delightful class. And now she wonders why I didn't take it again this year. 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| BobbyE Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5233 days ago 226 posts - 331 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 19 of 36 17 December 2010 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I asked a mechanic once for advice on how I can start to understand how my car works. He told me to first understand the engine. Take any engine and set it on the table. Start taking each part off one at a time. Lay them out in the order you take them off in, just so you can reverse the steps in order to rebuild it. Once you get to the last part, trace your steps and put the thing back together again. You'll end up with the the same old engine but a new understanding of it.
Now imagine the difference if I just laid all of the individual parts out on a table and tried to assemble the thing without having started with the whole engine. I wouldn't stand a chance. Language is the same. You want to start with the whole, complete sentences and conversations, and then break it into the parts for your understanding. This is the way self study usually does it. First learning conversations, and then breaking those conversations into the parts. In the classrooms they give you lists, charts, and grammar rules. These are the parts. It is so much more difficult, against the grain, and unnatural to try and generate the whole conversation from this. Not to mention slow. It can be done, it's just way longer process. 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5086 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 20 of 36 17 December 2010 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | ||
I love that analogy. My classes were exactly like that. "Here's one, two, three/Ah, be, che (or whatever) and here is how you conjugate verbs. Now write a perfect sentence or you get an F." After five years of Spanish I am eternally bitter toward classes. If I took classes it would be to supplement my self-study, not the other way around. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| skchi Groupie United States Joined 5731 days ago 57 posts - 86 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 21 of 36 17 December 2010 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | ||
If she asked you why you aren't taking her class, I assume that she's disappointed and probably thinks that you're no longer interested in French. If she's a native speaker, I'd see if I could get private tutoring from her. Edited by skchi on 17 December 2010 at 11:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6128 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 22 of 36 18 December 2010 at 12:28am | IP Logged | ||
How funny that you should mention this! I had my Japanese final today and near the end of it she walked into the class. I said "bonjour" to her as she was leaving, and then she was talking to me for a little while (in French, of course). I had told her before that although I'm not in the class, I'm planning on taking the AP French Exam this spring anyways. Today she told me that she had had the idea of doing weekly practice sessions next semester with a few students who she thought were good in French but didn't take the class, so I think I'm going to take her up on her offer! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6645 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 23 of 36 18 December 2010 at 12:59am | IP Logged | ||
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For me, it hasn't been an either-or question. I have had some language classes that probably weren't all that bad. I remember more of my high school French and Spanish than I remember high school algebra and geometry?
What's the difference? I was actually much more interested in the languages I took than mathematics and took it upon myself to practice those languages on my own. The classes were the push to get me started. As a beginner, I really needed feedback, and the feedback I got was helpful. I think that if only those students who were really interested in languages took them, the classes would be much different. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Nguyen Senior Member Vietnam Joined 5079 days ago 109 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Vietnamese | Message 24 of 36 18 December 2010 at 2:49am | IP Logged | ||
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Self study is just better hands down. A classroom has to cater to the lowest common denominator, or at least find the miđle ground. Some people will be there for a multitude of reasons, however; the motivated ones will self-study anyways. This is how I learned English. I went to classes but was motivated to learn so I used every available resource at my disposal. Motivation is the number one factor to success in anything.
Nguyẽn 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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