Audiolingualism & Grammar translation (Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies) Language Learning Forum

Audiolingualism & Grammar translation
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Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies

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Iversen
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Message 17 of 35

12 November 2011 at 7:48pm | IP Logged

s_allard wrote:

.. when I see teachers talking about dancing in the language class or how singing can be useful with young learners, I don't ridicule them. Quite the contrary, I recognize that they are experimenting with new ways to deal with a difficult situation. Somethings will work, others will not.

... and I would run away as fast as possible. Or demand full anaesthesia if fleeing the terror wasn't allowed by the school authorities.

How can people be so evil to each others?
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Cainntear
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Message 18 of 35

12 November 2011 at 8:16pm | IP Logged

s_allard wrote:

I don't see much of evidence of fads in the field of foreign language teaching. As someone who goes to a lot of conferences, I see a lot of experimenting with means of trying to deal with a fundamental problem that has not changed a lot: how do you engage of large class of children who have no interest in the subject that you are teaching?

And here we have the current fad, and you can't see it because you're right in the middle of it:

The idea that "motivation" is the single most important variable in teaching, hence the value you place on "experimenting with new ways to deal with a difficult situation."

The problem is that once you start defining your goal as "increasing motivation", you risk taking your eye off the core learning content. I've experience hour upon hour of time in classrooms dedicated to "fun" that has done nothing to further my ability in the language I'm supposed to be learning.

Quote:

I stand by my original statement: "Some things will work, others will not." If dancing, singing and having fun in a class are not effective learning tools for you, then you know what not to do. On the other hand, perhaps for an audience of twenty 8-year old children singing in the foreign language might be more useful than learning conjugation tables by heart.

That's a strawman. Nobody here proposed (or even would propose) teaching conjugation tables to 8 year old. Singing doesn't teach you much language at all, without a lot of very intensive attention (which undoes the "fun" part).

Besides, all effective learning is intrinsically fun. It's pure mental stimulation and it's what the brain was built for. A really well-taught class is so asorbing you haven't even got time to imagine being bored.
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Andrew Coach
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Message 19 of 35

03 December 2011 at 11:34pm | IP Logged

Al-Irelandi wrote:

Cainntear wrote:

Quote:

I wanted to ask despite the flawed nature of these 2 models
that is attested to
by modern day applied linguists, how comes they are so popular amongst yourselves?

A good learner can learn from a bad course.
--BUT--
A bad learner can only learn from a good course.

If a course or teaching methodology is proven to be ineffective, that only means it's
not effective for the average person -- it doesn't say that a minority of independent
learners can't learn from it.

Agreed.

Would one not agree that as independent language learners we should keep up to date
with findings in the field of second language acquisition research so as to try and
utilise some of their findings that we are better able to acquire our L2s in an optimal
manner? Much empirical research spanning over years has been conducted and has shown
some methods to be better than others, with some yielding few results are we then going
to dismiss such findings altogether, altogether undermining the expertise and efforts
of those researchers and accusing them of being frauds?

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Andrew Coach
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Message 20 of 35

03 December 2011 at 11:39pm | IP Logged

As you you say a good learner can learner from virtually any material, but the reality is that 95% plus of people are
not. So what do they do? That is the question I have been addressing as a language teacher for many years. I am
about to write a book for them but just want to refine it a bit more so it's more targeted. I have put together a
questionnaire to that effect and looking for people to answer a few questions( 1- 2 mins worth). I am giving away a
free ebook entitle the 7 Mistakes to Avoid to Successfully Learn a Foreign Language at
languagelearningunlocked.com.
If you could help out that would be great and you could also find out what the 95%ers should be doing! :-)
many thank!
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Doitsujin
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Message 21 of 35

04 December 2011 at 10:22am | IP Logged

Andrew Coach wrote:

I am giving away a free ebook entitle the 7 Mistakes to Avoid to Successfully Learn a Foreign Language at languagelearningunlocked.com.

IMHO, your web site will most likely deter many people from downloading your free book, because a) you need to enter an email address, which usually means more junk e-mail, and b) it uses the same unprofessional single page web design that countless other "miracle product" web sites use to pitch their products.

Edited by Doitsujin on 04 December 2011 at 10:23am
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Andrew Coach
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Message 22 of 35

04 December 2011 at 11:53am | IP Logged

Doitsujin wrote:

Andrew Coach wrote:

I am giving away a free ebook entitle the 7 Mistakes to Avoid to
Successfully Learn a Foreign Language at languagelearningunlocked.com.

IMHO, your web site will most likely deter many people from downloading your free book, because a) you need to
enter an email address, which usually means more junk e-mail, and b) it uses the same unprofessional single
page web design that countless other "miracle product" web sites use to pitch their products.

I am offering info in good faith. If you choose to not trust my promise to not share email address that is your
decision. I have had many positive comments from the hundreds of responses I have had about the info
contained within...which I have garnered over 30 years of teaching. Again feel free to not help me with my
request. Your decision for yourself.

cheers,
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Jeffers
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Message 23 of 35

04 December 2011 at 2:01pm | IP Logged

Al-Irelandi wrote:

Splog wrote:

Al-Irelandi wrote:

I have found many on here using many materials
based on the
audiolingualist and grammar
translation models of second language learning, such as DLI, FSI, berlitz ty and
assimil
courses. I wanted to ask despite the flawed nature of these 2 models that is attested
to
by modern day applied linguists, how comes they are so popular amongst yourselves?
Do you actually perform the drills and all those behaviourst stlye exercises and if so
do
you feel they have benefited yourselves in actual second language acquisition?

I use them because they work. They have been proven to be effective for many decades.
The
problem I have with modern applied linguistic theories is that no matter how promising
they sound, they are not time proven. Many theories come and go, but few endure,
because often what sounds like a good practice in theory proves to be a bad theory in
practice.

1)Can you name such theories that have failed since audiolingualism?

2)Are you also implying that nothing has bettered audiolingualism and has yet to do so?

3)Audiolingualism was dismissed 30+ years ago, it is hardly a modern day trend. If we
stuck at its behavourist origins and didn't progress in analysis of such SLA methods we
would have missed out on many subsequent findings since.

1) Can you name such theories that have replaced audiolingualism?

2) Can you name such theories that have bettered audiolingualism?

3) Can you name those linguists that have dismissed audiolingualism?

The problem with this discussion is that, right from the first post, it is based on assumptions rather than facts or evidence.

When I started getting into teaching (in the late 80s), we were told that students shouldn't be memorizing things because "the brain is not a muscle" (as I was told at a teacher training event). At about the same time, I was browsing a research journal, when I read that current research was showing the brain functions surprisingly like a muscle; the more you use it, the stronger it gets; the more you memorize, the easier it becomes to memorize. Social science theory was moving one direction, neuroscience evidence was moving the opposite way. The educationalist who spoke to us had a good sounding idea, and it was effectively taught to the extent that practice was falling in line with the theory. However, the theory was out of step with current science.

In contrast to Al-Irelandi, I don't think these courses are completely out of step with current thinking. For example, having started my first Assimil course, I think it fits in well with cognitivist thinking, because of the way it builds new knowledge using prior learning. At the very least, I would like to see Al-Irelandi give some evidence to support his assumptions.
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Hampie
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Message 24 of 35

04 December 2011 at 2:41pm | IP Logged

Iversen wrote:

s_allard wrote:

.. when I see teachers talking about dancing in the language class or how
singing can be useful with young learners, I don't ridicule them. Quite the contrary, I recognize that they are
experimenting with new ways to deal with a difficult situation. Somethings will work, others will not.

... and I would run away as fast as possible. Or demand full anaesthesia if fleeing the terror wasn't allowed by the
school authorities.

How can people be so evil to each others?

I cannot for my mind recall whenever any class mate of mine found the endless of stupid plays, radio programmes,
«tv-shows», news reports that we had to do enjoyable at all. We all detested them. I don’t even think that our
teachers wanted to do them… We had to, because that was a part of the compulsory curriculum that the teachers
had to follow.

I’ve had more joy out of being able to ramble all the German prepositions that takes the accusative (dutch, für,
gegen, ohne, um) than I’ve had of the weather forecast, the play about.. gosh, I’ve forgotten what they was about!

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