|
 |
When can one adopt a native dictionary? | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 73 of 124 23 November 2011 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
You can actually enrich your vocabulary by learning new meanings for words you already know.
4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 74 of 124 23 November 2011 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
True, but it makes no difference. If a definition uses a word you don't know, you can't understand the definition easily. If a definition uses an unknown sense of a word you know in other contexts, you still can't understand it easily. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 75 of 124 23 November 2011 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
The reason I use the word cryptic so often when referring to some of these statements is that I'm always left scratching my head, trying to figure out the real meaning. Most of the time I give up. Let me have a go at this. If you want to enrich your vocabulary with synonyms, these must be new. If they are old, then you already know them. So, you're not enriching your vocabulary. If they are new, then you can't understand them. So, I guess you won't enrich your vocabulary either. That is some pretty weird reasoning. I wonder if that makes dictionaries of synonyms useless tools. Why do people consult dictionaries of synonyms? My opinion is that often we are searching for a word that is conceptually related to one we know and that can either bring a nuance or a stylistic variation in our speaking or writing. The thesaurus.com site gives as synonyms of "mother" the following words: ancestor, child-bearer, creator, forebearer, mom, mommy, origin, parent, predecessor, procreator, progenitor, source Most of these words are not totally interchangeable with "mother", but they express some element that is in common with the meaning of "mother". I think that studying something like this enhances one's vocabulary because it isn't really about seeing new words as seeing how words can be related to each other. I knew all of these words, but I didn't see how I could relate them to "mother". Now, when I'm searching for ways to express the concept of something being born of another I have a range of words that I can use. I will never call my mother "progenitor", but I will probably have use for "predecessor" or "creator" in other contexts. As I have said endlessly, meaning comes from context. Most new words are not new at all. They are simply old words that are recombined differently. "Mobile", "cell", "phone", "tweet", "text", "chat" are not new words but have taken on new usages when we speak of "cellphones", "mobiles", "text messages", "chat room" etc. "Face" and "book" have given us "Facebook". "Web" is certainly not a new word. Neither is "site", but we now have "website". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 76 of 124 24 November 2011 at 3:21am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Assume you use a L1 --> L2 dictionary. You want to say or write something in the foreign language, and you have an idea about what you would have said in your own language (or in the base language of the dictionary). If there is one and only translation then you will normally use it, but I guess we all have been in the situation that we distrust the dictionary.. it is like there is something fishy about that proposal so we check it in a L2 -> L1 dictionary or maybe in a monolingual dictionary or on the internet. How can this happen? Well, we may have seen the word many times before, but it just didn't make it into our active vocabulary. Or it looks like something we have seen before and which had an irrelevant and unwanted meaning, so now we also are deeply sceptical about the newfound term.
So for a language learner who knows a little bit about the L2 in question a dictionary isn't a place where you either find known or unknown words - it is not a question of black or white. A dictionary is a place where you get some words that may or may not be useable in your context, and you use some quite obscure criteria for accepting or dismissing the proposals in the book. You may even decide to say something else because all the translation proposals appear suspicious. If you use a dictionary the other way (or a monolingual dictionary) you may do it to find out what a certain L2 word means, but it could also just be to find out about its morphology or spelling or etymology or whatever. However you will probably also learn something more about its meaning by seeing the translations or interpretations, adding new aspects to the notion about it you had before. Again, this is not a question of white or black. In many cases you have a feeling that the translation or translations or annotations point in the right direction, but there is still something rotten you haven't been told - and maybe you are right (no dictionary can tell you everything about a language). Edited by Iversen on 24 November 2011 at 3:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 77 of 124 24 November 2011 at 10:48am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No, what I mean is "if they are new, you can't understand the definition". Maybe this is a bad assumption, but I'm assuming most people look up dictionaries to find out the meaning of a particular word. This would be the main goal. The reason I prefer bilingual dictionaries to monolingual ones is because they are easier to understand, so they fulfil that main goal easier. Dictionaries of synonyms are used with a different goal in mind and they are designed to fulfil that goal. Of course a dictionary of synonyms is limited without access to an actual dictionary to check up specific meanings - in fact, you can look at a dictionary of synonyms as a sort of "index" for a dictionary. You may enjoy taking "walks" through a dictionary, and many do (I do it myself from time to time), but it's a hobby, not a general learning technique. Pick the appropriate tools for each job. Edited by Cainntear on 24 November 2011 at 10:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6086 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 78 of 124 24 November 2011 at 11:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Personally, I think monolingual dictionaries are extremely useful. Using French as a example,
Laguiole: Un type de fromage ( A type of cheese) I can possess a very basic knowledge of French, and easily understand the definition. Most monolingual dictionaries will use the simplest possible expressions to define a word. However, I would be extremely wary using a monolingual thesaurus. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 79 of 124 24 November 2011 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. Monolingual dictionaries are not for everyone. They do not replace bilingual dictionaries. I think they add something for the advanced user, but that's just an opinion. If they do nothing for you, don't bother. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 80 of 124 27 November 2011 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
|
Until joining in a previous thread on monodics, I was prejudiced in favour of monodics. I think Iversen more or less convinced me that for most words a bilingual dictionary is better.
However, my prejudice came from the type of words I often have had to deal with: philosophical and religious terms. And these are often impossible to give a direct translation of. An example from Greek would be hilasterion (ἱλαστήριον) the meaning of which is controversial, but is usually translated as atonement, expiation or propitiation. An example from Hindi would be moksha (मोक्ष), which is often translated "salvation" but which means nothing like a Christian would think of when they hear "salvation". This led me to think that for some terms a bidic would be misleading. However, on reflection, a good bidic would explain the subtleties of the word, while a monodic would assume the reader is within the culture and so requires less explanation. I still think using a monodic from time to time is a good exercise, as long as you have time to browse for a while. But I've now come over to the side of preferring a bidic for most purposes. 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
