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How to use a grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4800 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 17 of 29 13 December 2011 at 11:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I tend to use the grammar book as backup. I typically only open it when I can't figure something out. After having skimmed it to get a general idea I usually only go back to it as a reference book only when I need something specific. Like Spanish object pronouns. At first I had a vague idea what they were about. Then I read more examples in the novels I was reading and started getting a feel for them. Then I went back to look up some specifics about their use. But I didn't really learn all about them from my grammar book, but from examples found in my reading.
The drawback to this approach is that at the very beginning, not having really studied the grammar, you always seem to be completely lost. But eventually the fog does lift and after awhile it becomes clear sailing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6555 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 18 of 29 16 December 2011 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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I like to read grammar books straight through. I usually do this after I've gone through a regular textbook/course and have the basics down. Like Iversen, I don't worry about learning everything in the grammar book on the first go. I just become familiar with it so I can look things up later.
What helps me the most in gaining speaking fluency, is actually writing. I write a journal/diary, and at times I've written to pen-pals or even written letters to no one, just for practice. When I'm a little more advanced, I write stories and poetry as well. When I am writing something in my journal or a letter, I will say to myself, "I know there was a structure for saying 'doing X without doing Y'" and I will then look in the grammar to find out how to use that. It's because I need it at that moment, that I am able to learn it. I might have to look it up again the next time I need it, and even several times, but soon it sticks in my mind, and I use it without thinking. There are two keys to this: The first is that I've read about the grammar, so I know these structures exist even though I don't remember how to use them. The second is that I need to use the structure and have the time to look it up. That's why this works better with writing than with speaking. If I'm talking to someone, I don't have the time to look up grammar. I just have to muddle through and find another way to say what I mean. With writing, I have all the time I need. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 19 of 29 16 December 2011 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thinking about Iversen's use of grammar books, I've just remembered a fairly good little book I used to have: Scots Gaelic - A Brief Introduction. It's a book that's not designed to really teach you anything per se, but it gives a very light overview of the grammar of the language that is aimed at helping you understand the grammar better when you come across it in your lessons. I think it was pretty useful, but obviously I can't be sure it helped me at all....
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| fomalhaut Groupie United States Joined 4838 days ago 80 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 20 of 29 17 December 2011 at 12:24am | IP Logged | ||
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In my experience exposure to a grammar is damaging, as opposed to simply exposing yourself to the language.
Now that i'm relatively advanced in my target language, i bought a grammar book for refining and finding the subtleties. If i would have started this a year ago, though, i'd be just absolutely lost, overwhelmed and it would have been useless. You need the grammar in conjuction with native materials to reinforce the systems 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4800 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 21 of 29 17 December 2011 at 5:59am | IP Logged | ||
My personal experience is that wouldn't have worked for me learning Spanish. When I started reading my first Spanish book, "Harry Potter" (volume 1) there were some things that I just couldn't make any sense of without resorting to a grammar to learn something about direct and indirect object pronouns. I suppose I could have resorted instead to the English original of the book, but that felt like cheating to me, so I avoided buying a copy of the original until I was around 3/4 of the way through the Spanish translation. But by that time I was going 6 or 8 pages between finding words I had to look up. But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I used the grammar as a reference to help me untangle difficult constructions. I only learned whatever grammar I needed at the moment to solve the immediate problem. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5946 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 22 of 29 17 December 2011 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | ||
Remember that German is relatively very closely related to English. Try doing that for an unrelated language, and I can guarantee you'll struggle. Why not try Finnish in February with some of the other guys here? 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5233 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 23 of 29 17 December 2011 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | ||
Do you know both sides of the medal, or only the simply-expose-yourself-to-the-language part? Which of your languages were severely damaged by too early an exposure to grammar? Just asking ... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jasoninchina Senior Member China Joined 5166 days ago 221 posts - 306 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Italian | Message 24 of 29 18 December 2011 at 6:56am | IP Logged | ||
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For those of you who recommended writing as a way to hone your grammar skills, thank you. I think that is one of the best pieces of advice that can be given on this topic.
I may not have properly expressed this in the original post, but I find myself relying too heavily on beginners grammar. And, although I can read or listen to more complex grammar structures, it's been difficult to utilize them in speech. However, I have lately been writing in a journal and picking out specific grammatical structures to practice. As the one commenter wrote, writing gives us a chance to "stop and figure things out." In speech, I am far to likely to opt for the easier grammar. And, just to clarify, I don't think anyone is saying that a beginner needs to be intensively studying a grammar. So I don't think the conversation needs to turn into an argument about how damaging grammars are or aren't. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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