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Also speak with non natives in L2 | ||
Tags: Non-native Speakers | Speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5782 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 33 19 November 2011 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me it has been the normal way to speak my foreign languages with non-native speakers for decades already! Simply because I had no cantact with native speakers of my foreign languages. So for it's very normal to speak with German people in a foreign language. That's what we do in our Esperanto-group every month. So I don't make a difference with this: Everyone who is motivated and has the language skills is welcome to speak any of my foreign languages with me. That's also what we do on Skype with polyglot skyping. We talk in all our common languages no matter what our native languages are. I expect more flexibility with this and I would find it very strange, if a German person said to me: "I don't want to speak Dutch with you because you don't have the Dutch nationality."
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 19 November 2011 at 4:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| amethyst32 Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5584 days ago 118 posts - 198 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, French | Message 10 of 33 19 November 2011 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends on what you mean by non native. In my own experience, non native speakers who've advanced to a native like level usually give better explanations of the tricky points, and I wouldn't turn down conversation practise with someone like that just because technically it's not their mother tongue. I'll pass on talking/listening to a lower level student though; that seems to me a complete waste of time and it's one of the biggest reasons why I don't like classroom learning.
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| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 11 of 33 19 November 2011 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes but what percentage of the non-native speakers you meet fit that category? 1% at best? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| amethyst32 Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5584 days ago 118 posts - 198 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, French | Message 12 of 33 19 November 2011 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | ||
Disclaimer: You must take into account that I often use bilingual English/Spanish chat rooms and other internet sites where you might expect to find a higher % of people in this category than in general. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 33 21 November 2011 at 10:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Personally I tend to disregard both pronunciation, grammar and lexicological intricacies when I listen to other language learners, unless I feel that they are very good. And that's how I want it to be - learning from people who can't speak/write better than me would be problematic, and it is generally not a problem to find native speakers to listen to on the internet. Learning from written sources produced by native speakers is slightly more complicated because many native speakers aren't too trustworthy when they write - and besides you can normally hear when you are dealing with a native speaker so that you can decide whether you want to accept input, but good second language learners can fool me when they write.
However there is one caveat: really good second language learners may actually speak more clearly than lazy native speakers, maybe because they still have a faint recollection of their own past learning process. But I still tend to assimilate speech patterns more readily from a person whom I have accepted as a genuine native. At the other end of the scale, listening to really bad learners is a nightmare (like listening to an extremely bad recording through a lot of background noise), and that's also why I am wary about torturing others by speaking too early - although I recognize that for my own personal purposes it would probably be more efficient to babble happily along from the start. It is also one main factor behind my stern decision never again to follow a regular course in any language. Edited by Iversen on 21 November 2011 at 10:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6485 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 14 of 33 21 November 2011 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I really avoid it, so when it does happen, it's harder to understand than with a native. Strange but true, at least in my
case. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5142 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 15 of 33 22 November 2011 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me, the advantages (being able to practice expressing myself on a wide variety of typical conversational subjects which is hard to replicate by talking to myself) outweigh the disadvantages (possibility of picking up incorrect usage, frustration from dealing with beginners, temptation to explain things in English) so I do it. I'd rather speak to natives all the time, but since I can't, speaking to learners is much better than nothing. I think that in my particular situation where I have a good knowledge of the language and do a lot of listening to native materials, but need more practice producing it, other learners' mistakes aren't a big issue for me because I notice most of them and recognise that they're mistakes. Someone telling me about how they lived in France "pour un année" is never going to seem correct no matter how many times I hear it (which is surprisingly frequently). Of course my knowledge isn't perfect and there will be some errors that I hear but won't recognise as such. But I generally take everything a learner says with a pinch of salt unless they're clearly at a very high level, and as I say I feel that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5801 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 16 of 33 22 November 2011 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | ||
I think it is probably a lot better than the "purists" believe. If properly supplemented with native audio/video/chats, I think speaking to other L2 learners could be very productive, I did such an L2-L2 for a couple of months, and stopped for other reasons. I found the big advantage was that I was very relaxed. It was very much easier than chatting with a native. We did lots of things like chatting about various web sites, photos, language issues, etc. Challenge: I'd like to try it again. L2 language: Dutch My conversation level: Between B1 - B2. (I think it is very important for the levels to be quite close to each other) Medium: Skype or similar How much: Quite a bit. Several hours per week. Any takers? Lets give it a go. PM me. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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