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Also speak with non natives in L2 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5782 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 25 of 33 24 November 2011 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My Italian conversation group
I have now 15 years(!) of experience with our language conversation group in the Italian language. My language partner, she is a retired translator, in her professional life she translated from English, French and Italian into German. We both are Germans, so Italian is our L2. For this very long time we have been meeting once every two weeks. We always speak Italian with each other, which we also do, when I meet her in the city or when we talk on the phone and we write each other Italian birthday and Christmas cards. So Italian is our lingua franca. In the beginning of our meeting we talk about private topics in Italian and when we have exchanged the most important developments, we read an Italian text together aloud, which may be a text from a book or an Italian magazine (which you can buy in Germany). So such a group of two non-natives can be very succesful, just to give my personal example. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 24 November 2011 at 2:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5801 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 26 of 33 24 November 2011 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
For the reasons numbered 1 to 4 in my post from which you quoted. Also for the reasons just given by 'garyb' and especially the statement by 's_allard': "Most people don't like to inflict their bad L2 on native L1 speakers or friends." I like Fasulye's post about 15 years L2-L2 in Italian. I am convinced that, short of moving again to a Dutch-speaking country, the only realistic way I am likely to get comfortable in Dutch conversation is to find a like-minded Dutch L2 Skype partner, and spend a lot of time in L2-L2 conversation. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 27 of 33 24 November 2011 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Reading all of the above, one might almost get the impression that it's rather a sense of inadequacy that prevents you from finding an L1 partner. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5801 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 28 of 33 24 November 2011 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not sure I understand your reference to an 'L1' partner. I found three Dutch language learning partners, all at or very near C2 in English. We had many months of English-Dutch exchange (and occasionally still), and it was very useful. But, you are right, it was a sense of inadequacy in being able to offer an interesting and bearable conversation to my Dutch partners. I always felt I was imposing upon them, and could not offer very much in exchange to help their already- very-good English. Thus the unbalanced exchange. Can you see the advantage of a balanced exchange and the difficulty in an unbalanced exchange? Do you have any language partners where your L2 is very considerably lower than that of your partner, and your partner really needs no help in his/her L2? If so, would you be comfortable to continue such partnerships for very extended amounts of time? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 29 of 33 24 November 2011 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
L1 meant that the partner was a native speaker. I have had various Japanese partners in the course of the last few years and their English was invariably better than my Japanese. I never felt a sense of inadequacy, but I am pretty confident, and I did feel I could help them in some way. Since we each prepare the hour we will need help for, the other person's level is rather inconsequential. I am still meeting one partner weekly after 2,5 years -- which means I was only about 8 months into my study of the language when we first met. I don't see a difference between then and now -- other than my level of course! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5801 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 30 of 33 24 November 2011 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
I too feel that I can usually help in some way. But not as much as I am being helped. I guess I should just press on and not worry too much about the imbalance. The partners are obvious free to continue, or not continue if they feel they are not getting enough out of it. Thank you for the comments and suggestions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5782 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 33 24 November 2011 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Tommus, I see the point why you feel that your Skype contacts are "unbalanced". It's your disadvantage that you can offer only one single language as an asset to get your Dutch conversation as an exchange. I offer my Skype - partners several languages, so we never get the feeling that our Skype - contacts turn out to become "onesided" concerning our language progress. In my Skype - contacts I always have a "language win - win situation" and the personal relationships are excellent - which makes these contacts long-lasting. But I had to search for a very long time(!) to find these Skype contacts.
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 24 November 2011 at 8:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5801 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 32 of 33 24 November 2011 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
The personal relationships for my exchanges have been very important to sustain the exchanges. They were and are always very pleasant and interesting for me, and I think also for my partners. And I am hopeful of getting into one or more B2/B2 level exchanges soon that I think may work out well. Thanks for the encouragement. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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