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Can adult learners achieve native levels? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| okjhum Pentaglot Groupie Sweden olle-kjellin.com Joined 5205 days ago 40 posts - 190 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, English, German, Russian Studies: Spanish, Polish, Greek | Message 185 of 303 17 October 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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Can I attach sound files, or should I put them in Dropbox and give the links? Edited by okjhum on 17 October 2012 at 10:35am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| okjhum Pentaglot Groupie Sweden olle-kjellin.com Joined 5205 days ago 40 posts - 190 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, English, German, Russian Studies: Spanish, Polish, Greek | Message 186 of 303 17 October 2012 at 10:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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Here are two recordings of one of my learners when he says his address. He already knows Swedish well, but (like most of them) has got insufficient pronunciation practice and has a heavy foreign accent.
First before we started practicing. Then his first attempts alone, by himself after about 5-10 minutes' practice in chorus (ca 10 people in the class). At this moment, when he has found such a good pronunciation, our exercises begin, not end! From here he will need many, many more repetitions, alone and in chorus, to get it automatic for his own spontaneous production. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4933 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 187 of 303 17 October 2012 at 11:52am | IP Logged | |||||
I have never met a foreign person who has started learning Finnish as an adult and does not have some accent. I know few Estonians and Russians who speak grammatically perfect Finnish and have almost accent-free pronunciation, but just almost. I can speak with a person for a minute and then just one slightly misspelled word reveals the background in an instant. On the other hand I have understood that there are at least some non-natives who have as adults learned to speak English absolutely perfectly. However, I reckon that Russians could easier obtain good pronunciation in Finnish than in English, absolutely onerous Finnish grammar naturally omitted. There is just something awfully hilarious and outlandish when Russians or Finns try to gabble their first words of English. :) I have learned English for 30 years and hold a clear Finnish accent I am desperately trying to tame. Edited by petteri on 17 October 2012 at 1:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 188 of 303 17 October 2012 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
The first link is really short and the second one doesn't work for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5867 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 189 of 303 17 October 2012 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
Certainly some do not, but in some circumstances in total immersion, I believe there are many who do become "native" in English. It usually depends on whether the spouse is a native speaker or not. Canada is a land of immigrants, many who come here after the age of 20. And many, if not most, become indistinguishable in speaking from native English speakers by the time they are 50 or so. Some do not, but those stand out. The others are not so noticeable because they speak native-like English. Several of my friends came to Canada in their 20s and now have perfect English with no accent at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 190 of 303 17 October 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Link 1: before Link 2: after They're both short, they're a postal address. There are striking differences in intonation between the two. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 191 of 303 17 October 2012 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh my. The second recording sounds really over-exagerated. Is this considered a necessary intermediate step? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| anamsc2 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 4560 days ago 85 posts - 186 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan, German Studies: French | Message 192 of 303 18 October 2012 at 12:36am | IP Logged | |||||
Wow, really? I would say this is not the case in the US. I live in a region with a very high concentration of immigrants from all over the world, and I don't think I've ever met one that could pass for a native English speaker, much less who had native fluency. (That's not to say they don't exist of course; just that they're probably a tiny minority.) I wonder why the US and Canada would be so different in this respect. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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