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Can adult learners achieve native levels? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes  Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 281 of 303 16 April 2013 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Adult learners can achieve native levels, but subconsciously, a foreign language will always be foreign. It is extremely difficult almost impossible to speak a non-native language (for example English), under hypnosis (for example in psychotherapy). Once your ''control'' is blocked, you respond in your native language. So, only natives and children who learned English in this critical phase (<4 years of age) can respond subconsciously in a foreign language (English in this case).
The best results in language learning are seen in children who have parents speaking different languages, and who grow in a bilingual city. (for example, a child of a Hindi L1 mother, and a Russian speaking L1 father, living in Moncton (Canada) can end up having four first languages, all of which with absolute subconscious ''depth''.). Many advanced speakers tend to overestimate their nativeness. Some common mistakes in L2 English (w/corrections): 1. I recommended him to try the cake.* / I recommended (that) he try the cake. 2. Quite better * / Quite a bit better. or Quite a lot better. 3. Please speak slowlier. * / Please speak slower. or Please speak more slowly. 4. It is not allowed to smoke here. * / You are not allowed to smoke here. or It is forbidden to smoke here. 5. In NYC there are many high buildings.* / In NYC there are many tall buildings. 6. I wish you could stop yelling. * / I wish you would stop yelling. L2 users of English tend to avoid ''going to''- future as hell, overusing will-future (''Please help me! I will fall!''), Phrasal verbs are not ''liked'' either. Edited by Medulin on 16 April 2013 at 11:14pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 282 of 303 16 April 2013 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Very few adults will ever reach native-like proficiency in a language that is not their own. You can certainly be
fluent and have a great command of the language, but you will sometimes use constructions that don't quite ring true, make prepositional slips and there will be gaps in your vocabulary for items that practically every native speaker would know. Of course, spending many years in the country where the TL is spoken can iron out many of these traits. But people who live in non-English speaking countries hardly ever speak English at a level that puts them on a par with a native. Edited by beano on 17 April 2013 at 10:06am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 283 of 303 17 April 2013 at 2:06am | IP Logged | |||||
That's really interesting. Do you have a reference for this? I would like to read more. Edited by patrickwilken on 17 April 2013 at 11:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4700 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 284 of 303 17 April 2013 at 9:14am | IP Logged | |||||
really? What about people who lost their first language? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4263 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 285 of 303 17 April 2013 at 10:20am | IP Logged | |||||
And what about people that speak language B natively and learned it at age 5 but don't speak language A that they stopped speaking age age 5? Under hypnosis, would they speak language A or b? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 286 of 303 17 April 2013 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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We could easily invent lots of what-if scenarios, but the thread deals with the prospects of adult learners reaching native-like levels in a foreign language. I assume we are talking about people who are born, raised and educated in an environment where only language X is spoken. Could they attain native competency in language Y if they have no serious exposure to it until adulthood? Edited by beano on 17 April 2013 at 12:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6440 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 287 of 303 17 April 2013 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, for most reasonable measures of native competency. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 288 of 303 17 April 2013 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
I guess if you live in a country with lots of immigrants (e.g, Australia, USA, UK) the answer would seem an obvious 'yes'. Am I missing something? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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