Russian - perfective/imperfective (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Russian - perfective/imperfective
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ember
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Message 9 of 28

22 December 2012 at 7:24pm | IP Logged

Mikael84 wrote:

So if I understand correctly, in the sentence
дверь лучше закрывать, потому что сегодня холодно

закрыть could also be used, with a different meaning (ie close the door now vs in
general, close the door today whenever it is open), although the English translation
would probably look the same. I got confused because I only thought of the first
possibility and didn't catch the "general" meaning.

I would say "дверь лучше закрывать" rather translates like "you should keep the door
closed", while "дверь лучше закрыть" is more like "you should close the door"
I hope it helps

Edited by ember on 22 December 2012 at 7:25pm
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Serpent
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Message 10 of 28

22 December 2012 at 9:00pm | IP Logged

Марк wrote:

The first sentence is an example of the inperfective aspect in the general-fact meaning (общефактическом значении). We are not interesting in anything rather than whether the fact has taken place or not.

Is there any good list of the possible meanings? I often think of how little sense our perfective/imperfective verbs make but I guess I just focus too much on certain functions.
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Марк
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Message 11 of 28

23 December 2012 at 7:49am | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

Марк wrote:

The first sentence is an example of the inperfective
aspect in the general-fact meaning (общефактическом значении). We are not interesting
in
anything rather than whether the fact has taken place or not.

Is there any good
list of the possible meanings? I often think of how little sense our
perfective/imperfective verbs make but I guess I just focus too much on certain
functions.

Yes, there is. Несовершенный вид:

Конкретно-процессное значение. Глухарь временит. Выжидает.

Неограниченно-кратное Он надевал байковый халат, садился на бортик сухого фонтана,
беседовал с выздоравливающими.

Постоянно-непрерывное Москва превосходит по занимаемой территории многие столицы мира

Обще-фактическое Ты ходил сегодня в школу? Да, ходил и учительницу истории видел.

Совершенный вид:

Конкретно-фактическое значение А другого писателя в спину пихнули прикладом при мне.

Наглядно-примерное Легкий ветерок то просыпался, то утихал: подует вдруг прямо в лицу и
как будто разыграется.

Цитирую учебник Касаткина.

Edited by Марк on 23 December 2012 at 11:32am
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Mikael84
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Message 12 of 28

24 December 2012 at 3:17pm | IP Logged

Thanks Mapk. From my limited understanding of Russian though, I am having trouble seeing the difference between Обще-фактическое and Конкретно-фактическое. In the "Ты ходил сегодня в школу? Да, ходил и учительницу истории видел. " example, isn't the act of going to school concrete? I mean, you can only go to school once during the day.

Another example I recently saw in my Assimil and that puzzled me:

я давно мечтала послушать эту оперу, which I understand translates to "I've long dreamt of listening to this opera".
Why is it послушать and not слушать? What you dream of is the entire process of listening to the opera, from the beginning to the end, not of having listened to it (and the act is over), right?
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Марк
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Message 13 of 28

24 December 2012 at 9:59pm | IP Logged

Mikael84 wrote:

Thanks Mapk. From my limited understanding of Russian though, I am
having trouble seeing the difference between Обще-фактическое and Конкретно-
фактическое. In the "Ты ходил сегодня в школу? Да, ходил и учительницу истории видел. "
example, isn't the act of going to school concrete? I mean, you can only go to school
once during the day.

Another example I recently saw in my Assimil and that puzzled me:

я давно мечтала послушать эту оперу, which I understand translates to "I've long dreamt
of listening to this opera".
Why is it послушать and not слушать? What you dream of is the entire process of
listening to the opera, from the beginning to the end, not of having listened to it
(and the act is over), right?

Oбще-фактическое means that we are interested whether the fact took place.
Послушать (here) means to listen from the beginning to the end once.
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Siberiano
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Message 14 of 28

25 December 2012 at 11:42am | IP Logged

Mikael84 wrote:

You've just blown my mind! I could only explain this like the case of обещали/пообещали: since you got to school once a day anyway, it doesn't matter how you say it. If it's a special case, yes it will make difference.
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Марк
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Message 15 of 28

25 December 2012 at 12:37pm | IP Logged

Siberiano wrote:

since you got to school once a day anyway, it doesn't matter how you
say it.

That's wrong.
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Serpent
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Message 16 of 28

25 December 2012 at 1:30pm | IP Logged

Yeah.
Hard to explain, but for example my parents might sometimes say "ну что, сходила в универ?" because I skip a lot :D But usually they ask whether I ходила, because when I do get ready and go outside, I always make it to uni. I'm not like many other students who tell their parents they go to uni, then go somewhere else instead. When I skip I'm typically at home:D

But a different student could jokingly admit "ходила, но не дошла/не доехала" - 'i set off to uni but i didn't get there'.

Edited by Serpent on 25 December 2012 at 1:31pm

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