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Claiming to Speak a Language - Pet Peeve | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4958 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 105 of 164 26 December 2011 at 2:21am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah this is pretty annoying. Luckily, it's very hard to fake knowledge in a language, so
it's very easy to embarrass those would be polyglots. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DesEsseintes Triglot Newbie Ireland Joined 5183 days ago 33 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English, French*, Spanish Studies: Croatian | Message 106 of 164 26 December 2011 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||
If I might, you may very well be fluent (or even have reached a native-like level) in a language, and yet be unable to understand what a native speaker is trying to tell you. I'm French, I grew up in the south of France, spent 20 years there, and yet I can barely understand some of my fellow countrymen, especially those who come from the northern part of my country. Likewise, I started learning English when I was 6, spent 5 years in England, and have now been living for two years in Dublin, Ireland. A colleague of mine comes from Cork (another city in Ireland), and all my other English-speaking colleagues actually have to ask him 10 times a day to repeat what he just said. Yet, they were all born in English-speaking countries, so I guess we'll all agree that they're "pretty fluent" in English, to say the least. Bear in mind that some regional accents may as well be very difficult to understand, even for native speakers (northern part of Scotland, Australia, etc...). Last but not least, what about local idioms? For instance, do not panick if an Irish native asks you if you "had some craic for Christmas" (pronounced "crack "), for he's not telling you that you look like a drug-addict. Actually, he just wants to know if you had fun with your family. Imagine you were born in, say, Arizona. What would you understand? How would you react? If you ever have the opportunity to visit the part of France where I come from, you may very likely hear something like "ça envoie du pâté dans les arbres", and I actually realized 10 years ago when I found a job in Paris that nobody there knew this expression of ours. Example : here's Brad Pitt mimicking the knacker accent (Snatch). To make a long story short, knackers are usually poor people living in the northern part of Dublin (Ballymun area). Stop the video at 0.20m, the rest is crap. Good luck! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=172dcGK3DjE&feature=related Edited by DesEsseintes on 26 December 2011 at 4:40pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4750 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 107 of 164 26 December 2011 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can't say I'm B2 in American English and B1 in Latin American Spanish because this level marking is not performed outside Europe so it's not suitable for languages that are not official in Europe.
I doubt I would get more than B2 in Continental Portuguese as a speaker of Brazilian Portuguese since there are so many differences, and things that are grammatical in Portugal but ungrammatical and Brazil and vice versa. I may even find many words used in Portugal completely foreign ( difficult to understand). Most tests have a predefined key/answers with no dialectal variation allowed. Edited by Camundonguinho on 26 December 2011 at 5:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 108 of 164 26 December 2011 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||
The CEFR scale can be applied to any language regardless of continent. The system is not restricted to official tests and can be used for self assessment. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jax Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4372 days ago 15 posts - 27 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 109 of 164 11 December 2012 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | ||
He didn't say he was fluent at all. I've just watched it now and he said, "I can understand more and I can speak a few words." He either didn't understand ‘ein bisschen’ or he was going along with JR's ignorance and said that it sounded French. Saying that you speak a language (when you don't) can be because: 1. You can speak a little and think that's good enough for the definition. 2. You are deluded and believe that after a Michel Thomas advanced course that you are now advanced. 3. You are trying to impress someone. My dad used to say that he was proud that he spoke French and he fell into category number 2. He now has realized how difficult it can be to learn a new language to a C1 and then a C2 level. I was the same. I thought I could speak Spanish really well before travelling to South America. But once I was there it hit me that I couldn't. Category 3 is what annoys most people I think, but as a lot of people have said here, it doesn't really matter what other people say about their abilities. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 110 of 164 12 December 2012 at 12:33am | IP Logged | ||
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4. You know that you're expected to be exaggerating, such as with job applications. I definitely didn't feel comfortable saying I was fully proficient in Finnish but dad convinced me that if I'm too modest, "they'll think you can translate a page. with a dictionary. in two hours". While I was definitely a lot better than that, having already reached "basic fluency".
edit: this depends on what's perceived as realistic, though. in my Romance languages I feel perfectly comfortable stating my level the way it is. but a 17 year old learning Finnish is so likely to be misled by her progress that I'm still convinced it was the right thing to say. Edited by Serpent on 12 December 2012 at 12:39am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| zerrubabbel Senior Member United States Joined 4601 days ago 232 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 111 of 164 12 December 2012 at 1:48am | IP Logged | ||
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I can say confidently Im probably not where I like to think I am... while filling out some paperwork to go to japan,
one of the questions was, what level of japanese can you speak, choices as follows: 0- none 1-somewhat familiar 2- conversational 3- fluent well... I new I was far from being able to call myself fluent, so on the sheet I wrote 2, because I was quite comfortable with what I had accomplished that far... however, when I arrived in japan, It wasnt too long before I decided I probably should have wrote 1, just because of the trouble I had understanding what was said to me... its pretty clear in that case, that I need more words to hold a good conversation, and luckily, I think the number of kanji I know, is probably a good yet general indication of how able I am to hold a conversation... but on the other side... I did have a relatively easy time with grammar, and recalling words I knew was also easy... just not enough of them :/ so it would seem Im guilty of over assessing myself, but at least now I know where I stand, and from there I can work toward becoming more fluent :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6904 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 112 of 164 12 December 2012 at 2:03am | IP Logged | ||
Very, very true, at least here in Poland. I always try to anticipate the actual language requirements and expectations, and the language profile of candidates applying for the job. Depending on that, I'm either underestimating a bit my language skills, or exaggerating a bit because I don't want the employer to think that if I was asked to introduce myself, I would utter max. five sentences with lots of grammar mistakes, basic vocabulary and a horrible accent, which is sadly the case of many people who write 'good' in a job application (as opposed to 'very good', 'fluent', 'proficient' and some other descriptions). 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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