At what level do you say you speak (2) ? (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

At what level do you say you speak (2) ?
Tags: CEFR Language Levels \| Speaking
Share with: Delicious Digg reddit Facebook StumbleUpon
Language Learning Forum : General discussion

Poll Question: At what level do you say you speak (2) ?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
B1	21	[17.50%]
B1+	13	[10.83%]
B2-	10	[8.33%]
B2	50	[41.67%]
B2+	26	[21.67%]
You can not vote in this poll

118 messages over 15 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 12 ... 14 15 Next >>

casamata
Senior Member
Joined 4263 days ago
237 posts - 377 votes

Studies: Portuguese

Message 89 of 118

01 April 2013 at 9:59pm | IP Logged

patrickwilken wrote:

casamata wrote:

I wouldn’t agree with chess or piano; there are little like 6 year olds that are professional-class in both with fairly little practice. In comparison, I have played a LOT of piano in my life but was never nearly as good as those people. I remember my sister would never practice and she would run circles around me in piano.

I think you are seriously overestimating the ability of six year olds in either chess or piano, but I am happy to see the evidence. I would be sort of surprised that a six year old could reach the keys properly to play to be honest...

With regard to your relative piano abilities compared to your sister it's hard for me to me to judge the evidence. Perhaps your practice was simply not that effective relative to hers. Perhaps you are underestimating how much work she did.

Do you really believe all these peer reviewed published studies are false? Can you provide me with counter studies? If all these results are seriously in doubt, I would expect a lot of counter studies to show this.

Some token 7 year old asian guy playing piano, son. He's nowhere as good as the girl I saw playing live at auditoriums, but he's very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HVXoNM-oHQ

Edited by casamata on 01 April 2013 at 10:01pm
1 person has voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6598 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, Finnish^C1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

Message 90 of 118

01 April 2013 at 10:33pm | IP Logged

casamata wrote:

My sister never practiced. Literally. I seriously would practice twice as much but sucked compared to her.

0 x 2 = 0.
Of course you sucked with zero practice :) (couldn't resist, sorry)
3 persons have voted this message useful

Julie
Heptaglot
Senior Member
PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6904 days ago
1251 posts - 1733 votes

5 sounds
Speaks: Polish*, English^B2, German^C2, Spanish^B2, Dutch, Swedish, French

Message 91 of 118

01 April 2013 at 11:17pm | IP Logged

Casamata did practice:

casamata wrote:

In comparison, I have played a LOT of piano in my life

// EDIT
Too late for jokes and math ;)

Edited by Julie on 02 April 2013 at 1:36am
2 persons have voted this message useful

casamata
Senior Member
Joined 4263 days ago
237 posts - 377 votes

Studies: Portuguese

Message 92 of 118

02 April 2013 at 12:30am | IP Logged

Julie wrote:

Casamata did practice:

casamata wrote:

In comparison, I have played a LOT of piano in my life

She was joking, didn't you see? ("I couldn't resist")

Look, I'm pretty optimistic and think we humans can accomplish a lot. I know people that sucked at X subject in High School and decided to major in it in college.

And if a guy is young and very motivated, he should be able to get about a 3 hour marathon if he trains for years and a lot. (Like 100+ km/week)

I even said that I thought that pretty much anybody could get a C2 level if they live a long time abroad. Like 10 years.

That said, tell me what you think about the following statements and why. I'm interested how people think.

1. Not all languages are equal in difficulty--it depends on your mother tongue especially and natural talent for either accent imitation, memory for vocabulary, and ability to assimilate sentence structure and grammar.This is assuming that both people are equally motivated and spend the same amount of time working. For example:If one Italian never practices, he will never know Spanish but his Italian classmate could learn a lot of Chinese if he worked at it a lot.

2. It takes a lot of time to be a master at languages, or anything. If that fluent in 3 months guy was so amazing at Chinese after 3 months (why did all the very experienced Chinese learners/speakers say that he was at an A2 level after 3 months and had a very poor accent that impeded understanding? The only B1 grade I heard was by that one language school teacher, though there could have been something else going on there)

3. The hundreds (thousands?) of students trained at the Foreign Service Institute took 3.5 times longer in learning Chinese/asian languages than Romance languages. They were very motivated and had high aptitude for foreign languages. How can somebody do what they did in fractions of the time?

4. Let's say that me and my friend want to improve our Spanish, from B1. We have equal foreign language talent based on tests and equal motivation. I go to Spain and live my life 100% in Spanish for 3 years, with a Spanish girlfriend and job where I speak all Spanish. He lives in Spain for 1 year and says he is just as good as me. Who would you believe?

5. If two learners spend equal time/effort on languages but one guy spreads it out over 10 languages and the other focuses on 2 languages, aren't they the same? I consider them to be equally amazing and that there is nothing wrong with focusing on quality or quantity. It IS wrong to claim C2 in 10 languages in, hypothetically, 2 years, however.
1 person has voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6598 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 93 of 118

02 April 2013 at 1:26am | IP Logged

Every joke has a grain of truth... if your sister never practised, then your "twice as much" equals zero. Which means that your sister did practise.
2 persons have voted this message useful

Julie
Heptaglot
Senior Member
PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6904 days ago
1251 posts - 1733 votes

5 sounds
Speaks: Polish*, English^B2, German^C2, Spanish^B2, Dutch, Swedish, French

Message 94 of 118

02 April 2013 at 1:33am | IP Logged

casamata wrote:

1. Not all languages are equal in difficulty--it depends on your mother tongue especially and natural talent for either accent imitation, memory for vocabulary, and ability to assimilate sentence structure and grammar.

I agree (there are other relevant factors, though).

Quote:

2. It takes a lot of time to be a master at languages, or anything.

I could agree, depending on the interpretation of 'a lot of time' and 'a master at languages'.

Quote:

3. The hundreds (thousands?) of students trained at the Foreign Service Institute took 3.5 times longer in learning Chinese/asian languages than Romance languages. They were very motivated and had high aptitude for foreign languages. How can somebody do what they did in fractions of the time?

I don't have an opinion, not enough data.

Quote:

4. Let's say that me and my friend want to improve our Spanish, from B1. We have equal foreign language talent based on tests and equal motivation. I go to Spain and live my life 100% in Spanish for 3 years, with a Spanish girlfriend and job where I speak all Spanish. He lives in Spain for 1 year and says he is just as good as me. Who would you believe?

That's possible, I can imagine this would be true. It's not only the length of stay that matters but also the type of free time activities, the choice of reading materials, the kind of a job, the time spent on conversations and the subjects discussed etc. 3 years don't have to be better than 1 year.

Quote:

5. If two learners spend equal time/effort on languages but one guy spreads it out over 10 languages and the other focuses on 2 languages, aren't they the same? I consider them to be equally amazing and that there is nothing wrong with focusing on quality or quantity.

I really don't care, everyone should learn what they need / feel like :)

Edited by Julie on 02 April 2013 at 1:36am
1 person has voted this message useful

casamata
Senior Member
Joined 4263 days ago
237 posts - 377 votes

Studies: Portuguese

Message 95 of 118

02 April 2013 at 2:56am | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

Every joke has a grain of truth... if your sister never practised, then your "twice as much" equals zero. Which means that your sister did practise.

Wow, some of you guys seriously are very ingenuous. I practiced more than her and started playing a year before her, I believe. Still, she quickly beat me. She was clearly better than me and we had the same teacher, same piano, same variables except she had more talent.

Me and my friend walk onto the basketball court. We are the same height. He can touch the rim. I can't. Why? Could it be...he has more type 2 muscle fibers and is more explosive? (While I have more endurance)

In the US, a person can become a physician assistant after completing a 2 year masters degree.

A physician does 7-11 years of post-college education. Who knows more about the human body, treatments, pathophysiology? Note: physicians have much higher credientials entering medical school than Physician Assistant students have when they enter their masters program. I guess those wily PA's are so fast at learning that they beat the lazy physicians that take several times more years to complete their degree. I seriously hope you won't say the guy with the 2 year masters.

But hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, am an olympian, speak 6 languages at a C2 level while practicing each for one month, all because I concentrate really hard. Some of you gusy really believe anything you hear... :(

Edited by casamata on 02 April 2013 at 3:09am
1 person has voted this message useful

tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 4708 days ago
5310 posts - 9399 votes

Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

Message 96 of 118

02 April 2013 at 8:24am | IP Logged

I don't think anyone is claiming to learn to speak native-level Amharic in 1 month.

Be realistic.

If we run a marathon in 4 hours, it's an achievement. If we do well at amateur piano,
it's an achievement. If we do it faster or slower than you, it's an achievement. Stop
focusing on what other people do, why is it relevant to you?

Edited by tarvos on 02 April 2013 at 8:25am

2 persons have voted this message useful

This discussion contains 118 messages over 15 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next >>

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.3594 seconds.