|
 |
At what level do you say you speak (2) ? | ||
Tags: CEFR Language Levels | Speaking | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| zerrubabbel Senior Member United States Joined 4601 days ago 232 posts - 287 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Mandarin | Message 65 of 118 31 March 2013 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I understand what you mean, and there is definitely merit to that mentality. But I also have this experience, Im not nearly as motivated to learn Spanish as I am to learn Japanese. As a result, I may never make it as far in Spanish, unless a condition of my motivation changes. For that reason, I am liable to say to people I think Spanish is harder. I kinda lost sight of my point, but I think regardless of the difficulty of a language, good motivation makes it less of a problem. :P 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4263 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 66 of 118 01 April 2013 at 12:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, but we're not talking about motivation. If somebody is motivated, they may double major in Chemistry and Mathematics, get a Rhodes scholarhip, and compete on the Division 1 sports team while saying that it wasn't that much work. Conversely, a lazy person may try to graduate with a major that requires little studying in 5 years without working a job and complain about the difficulty. It's very amazing/confusing when people say that for a Romance language speaker, learning another romance language is just as hard as learning Chinese. It's just not true. With equal motivation (equal variables in the experiment), one of the languages is much easier to learn. And it is sure as heck not the Asian language that shares nothing in common with the student's native tongue. Another thing that low-intermediate speakers do is think that because they have reached their low-intermediate level in such relatively short time, it should be easy getting that C1, C2. But mastery of a language is really a life-long process. You can't do it in 3 days, 3 weeks, nor 3 months. I fell into this trap when I was a B2 Spanish speaker and realized that I sucked. I thought that I knew everything and then realized how little I knew! Plus, it is kind of offensive, at least to me, when people say that they can do what you've done in 3 years, in like 2 or 3 months. I took one law class in college, do I know as much as a lawyer? Heck no. People just don't know what they don't know. Edit:typos Edited by casamata on 01 April 2013 at 12:45am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 67 of 118 01 April 2013 at 12:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 68 of 118 01 April 2013 at 1:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
This would inspire me to do better than them. If I see someone achieve something fantastic, then at least I should make the envy inspire me to do better than them, not be offended that they worked their ass off and rationalise it away by saying "but that's impossible and that is magic you can't possibly do that!!!" That isn't offensive. It's maybe implausible, but even if you reach, say, B1 or B2 in 3 months of Chinese, that's an effort worth applauding because there are not many people that are able to do that. And I think we should appreciate an achievement as such more than whine that "it's impossible to reach C394" or whatever. If someone achieves a good level of Chinese quickly just praise them for their hard work. And if you think it's impossible, why don't you try it for yourself and see how well you can do? You might just be surprised at the results. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4263 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 69 of 118 01 April 2013 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well, when tens of thousands of people have failed to do so, what makes it likely that I will? Let's put out some very unlikely scenarios and you can tell me if you think it is realism or foolhardy optimism. Following each scenario I'll put what I think are reasonable, realistic alternatives. 1. Become a soccer player for the Real Madrid. Trying my best to be good at soccer and realizing that it is very unlikely and putting more effort into school. I'll try to get a soccer scholarhip before getting my hopes up. 2. Become an NBA player while being 5'6". Know that only a handful (like 3, I believe) of players have ever made the NBA while being so short. Try for more realistic goals first like playing high school ball, then college. 3. Getting into Harvard and subsequently being accepted to Harvard Law School. Unlikely, but more feasible since it is more about hard work and not athletic ability. 4. Becoming an astronaut. Pretty damn long odds; I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket. 5. Being accepted to medical school (44% of applicants in each application cycle are accepted), graduating and being accepted into a hand surgery residenty (one of the most competitive residencies to get accepted into; there are also only like 5 programs in the entire US). Very unlikely; I'd just try to get accepted to a med school first. 6. Run a 4 minute mile (1609 meters). Only 380 American have done it EVER. And almost all of them have a certain body type. Mind you that nobody in the history of recorded history had done it before Roger Bannister in the 1950s. Physiologically some people are made to be good at certain things, like sprinting or endurance. But not both. The people that are "ok" at both are decathletes and 800 meter runners. 7. The thing is that those people are NOT achieving amazing things. They are seriously just lying or being very liberal with their definitions of being "fluent" or being able to "do everything they can do in target language as in their native tongue." That is a complete lie; how is somebody that has been learning English for a few years going to know as much as their native language, one that they have spent thousands of hours speaking? edit: damn typos Edited by casamata on 01 April 2013 at 1:28am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sterogyl Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4368 days ago 152 posts - 263 votes Studies: German*, French, EnglishC2 Studies: Japanese, Norwegian | Message 70 of 118 01 April 2013 at 8:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||
@serpent: I agree. Classes are too slow in most cases.
You're right. Language is just too complex. A certain intonation alone can mean so much. Jokes, cultural references, regionalisms and how they come across to someone from the region... Even at a "C2 level" you are still not able to do *exactly* the same things as in your mother tongue. "Fluent" is a very vague concept. It is easy to come across fluent to somebody who doesn't know the language. You can also learn how to speak quickly, using only a few words. Is that fluent? Yes and no. I had the same experience at "B2": I thought I knew it all, but then I realized how much I still had to learn. Now at C1 it's basically the same, in spite of knowing much more. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 71 of 118 01 April 2013 at 9:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
It's not about that. It's about the fact that when people do it's a great achievement no matter how they get there. If you run a marathon, are you offended by the fact that a long distance runner runs a marathon in 2 hrs 15 minutes because you can't? Are you offended if someone aims to set a world record and run a marathon under 2 hours? And if he fails, but still runs it in 4 hours as a first-timer? no. 7 is pretty achievable within a few years. Edited by tarvos on 01 April 2013 at 9:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6904 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 72 of 118 01 April 2013 at 10:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
People are different: some prefer to start with small steps and make up goals as they go, always thinking realistically. Some set their mind to a faraway, maybe even a little unrealistic goal, and try to do everything to achieve it, even though they may realize at some point on the way they won't be able to do it, or the effect won't be worth all their effort.
I never dreamed of becoming a hand surgeon or an NBA player ;), but I did/do have some goals which may be considered by some people as very hard to achieve, if possible at all. But that's the way I tick, at least in the academic and professional life (and I did manage to achieve at least some of my goals). 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
