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Foreign languages in (Anglophone) schools | ||
Tags: School Education | Foreign Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5211 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 17 of 35 18 March 2013 at 10:52am | IP Logged | ||
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I did Scottish Higher French and the only speaking we ever did was an oral exam which was supposed to be a "conversation" but was entirely memorised beforehand. From what I've heard, things haven't changed much, although having native French "assistants" in the classroom is a bit more common these days.
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| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 18 of 35 18 March 2013 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Why is this thread about Anlophone schools? Isn't it the same thing everywhere? If a language isn't useful in the place where you live, nobody is going to learn it in school. English is useful pretty much everywhere, so people get enough exposure to push them over the threshold there, but I've yet to meet a single person who learned a non-English language in school in Sweden, despite the fact that it's obligatory to study it. Basically there are three scenarios:
1: The language is useful where you live. 2: You are personally interested in the language and try to use it in your spare time. 3: None of the above. In cases 1 and 2, you will probably be able to get a decent level in the language. In case 3, it won't happen. You can take a thousand case 3 students and not a single one will learn the language to any useful degree. Making case 3 students take language classes is a huge waste of their time and taxpayer money. ETA: A really good teacher will be able to convert a few case 3 students into case 2 students, but that's exceptional and not something you can count on. Edited by Ari on 18 March 2013 at 12:51pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5569 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 19 of 35 18 March 2013 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do most people, whether at school or not, get past A2 in speaking ability? After all, if
all you need from the language is to go on holiday for a couple of weeks per year, or occasionally speak to a foreign business colleague or client, A2 is nearly all you are going to need. Getting beyond that, in my painful experience, takes a good deal of effort that is not necessarily available to the majority of the working populace. Edited by Elexi on 18 March 2013 at 2:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4643 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 20 of 35 18 March 2013 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ari, I agree with you generally, but there are exceptions. I had German for six years in school, and the last three years in upper secondary (videregående skole as it is called in Norwegian) I was lucky enough to have an exceptional teacher. From the outset I was a motivated student, but my motivation increased by the fact that the teacher managed to engage us and make the lessons interesting and lively. If I should describe the teacher's method, I'd say it was a combination of drilling grammar and patterns (they are important in German), with a lot of communication and real use of the language. In class we were encouraged to talk and discuss interesting subjects. If someone was not able to follow, or lacked vocabulary, she let them say a part in Norwegian, whereby she introduced the new words. She gave us a lot of homework, but again a combination of grammar drills, interesting reading and free writing about a subject we would choose. We had very little of mechanical translation, which I have seen mentioned by some here.
I did not really use German outside the school context at that time, but I did my homework conscientiously, and I came out of school with a very decent level in German. As for the others, I had a friend who was not really interested in German, but even he engaged in class and improved markedly during the three years. Again, this was probably exceptional, but it goes to show that it is possible, if only you get the right teacher in the right place. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 21 of 35 18 March 2013 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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German is a closely related language to Norwegian.
But do children really estimate usefulness of school subjects? If a subject is important at school, there are lots of hours, the requirements are high, then the average result must be good. Especially if the teacher is good. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4626 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 22 of 35 18 March 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | ||
But English is also closely related to German and few British pupils can say anything in the language after spending a few years learning it. I do think kids are able to suss out what is important to them. Most will quickly work out that they will never need to speak French, German or Spanish in their lives. Many will have been to these places and got by just fine in English. The English media is enormous and few people even attempt to dabble in music and movies in other languages. A child in Norway will recognise the benefits of knowing English....they are plain for all to see. But what does French bring to the table? Edited by beano on 18 March 2013 at 5:33pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 23 of 35 18 March 2013 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||
Maybe, but it means that no subject can be successfully taught because it is useless to the majority. Biology, chemistry, physics, geography, history, literature - they all are quite useless to most people. And of course we can't know whether we will need a certain language. My groupmate went to France as a postgraduated student. He knew English well but he started learning French. We had a very good English teacher at school and she always spoke English to us. So we all could speak English. Edited by Марк on 18 March 2013 at 6:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 24 of 35 18 March 2013 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Sure, but you can't build an education policy on exceptional people. If regular teachers with regular students are getting zero results, is it really worth those millions of taxpayer kroner to fund the few exceptional teachers? Making third language instruction optional would weed out a lot of uninterested students who would not learn anything from any except the exceptional teachers, saving money and time that can be spent on teaching more useful stuff, and making teachers able to proceed quicker because they won't have to deal with unmotivated students progressing on geological timescales. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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