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In which I shall stumble Frenchwards | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| nystagmatic Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 4135 days ago 47 posts - 58 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French Studies: German | Message 1 of 7 11 February 2013 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi all! I'm a newcomer to HTLAL and to language studying in general, but I'm enjoying both a great deal. :) I'm a native speaker of Portuguese, fluent in English, and currently studying French. My main goal is to be able to read complex texts as soon as possible, because there are lots of books I'd like to read in French but very few opportunities for me to use the language in speaking or writing at the moment. I'm planning on studying until I reach a point from where I can progress inertially at a decent pace and then begin my studies of German, the one other language I feel an urgent need to learn. I hope to get there in no more than a year, with at least an hour or two of daily study. How plausible do you guys think that is?
I started studying French last September, with a textbook called Easy French Step-by-step which was dull but which gave me a decent grammatical basis. I made it a third of the way through then had to stop because of school. I also took about ten hours of classes with a friend who's majoring in French, which helped me with basic pronunciation and some day-to-day expressions. Then last month I discovered Duolingo, which rekindled my interest in the language. I got about halfway through the French tree until I got fatally bored with it. I also discovered Michel Thomas, Pimsleur, Assimil, French in Action and (thanks to a member of HTLAL!) French for Reading, all of which I'm now going to be using as my main study materials. I have also changed everything in my computer to French, which is pretty useful if at times disorienting. :) I have so far done all of the Michel Thomas basic course and its review, as well as ten lessons of Pimsleur and three chapters of French for Reading. Next I'm going to finish MT Advanced and Language Builder, which should take another week or so, before starting Assimil's New French with Ease. I'll also go on doing a couple of Pimsleur lessons and as much as I can of French for Reading each day — up to now I've been managing one chapter a day, but I bet it will get much harder as I progress. I also have a buddy who will be more or less studying along; hopefully we'll be able to correct each other's mistakes instead of passing on some of our own! And now here goes nothing: Je vais toujours essayer d'écrire quelque chose en français, avec l'aide de l'internet et d'un dictionnaire quand nécessaire. Je vais aussi souligner tout qui j'ai dû rechercher. Plus tard, quand je suis finis avec mes études d'aujourd'hui, je vais poster qu'est-ce que j'ai appris. Des suggestions et des corrections sont toujours bienvenues. À plus ! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4835 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 2 of 7 11 February 2013 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Welcome!
I think your goals are more than possible, if you keep to your pace. And learning to read is usually easier than the other skills. My two cents: you could use graded readers. They are less interesting than usual literature but they are some reading. Another opportunity for a beginning French reader are the BDs. So many, of all the genres, with all styles of pictures which make it much easier to start reading. Asterix is only one of many. When you are ready for the next step, translations are usually easier than works originally in the language. And there are differences between original French authors as well. Good luck and enjoy your studies. I'm looking forward to reading your log. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jhaberstro Senior Member United States Joined 4219 days ago 112 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 3 of 7 12 February 2013 at 7:37am | IP Logged | ||
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Welcome and good luck! I'd imagine since your native language is a romance language, acquiring passive reading
skills shouldn't be all too hard for you :-). I too am learning French, so I am in no way an authoritative source on the French language, but one small correction in your French sentence:
Qu'est-ce que is used to form "what questions" in English, but it literally translates "what is it that", which obviously only makes sense when forming a question (a contrived example: "What is it that you mean?!"). "ce que" is a relative pronoun that also translates to the English "what". Whenever "what" is the object of your sentence/phrase, use "ce que" (such as in your sentence "I'm going to post what I have learned" -- "what" is what you've learned). There is also the similar "ce qui", which takes the role of the subject of the sentence (for example: "J'ai trouvé ce qui est là" ==> "I've found what is there"). As you can see, "ce qui" can also translate to "what". Edited by jhaberstro on 12 February 2013 at 7:38am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| nystagmatic Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 4135 days ago 47 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French Studies: German | Message 4 of 7 13 February 2013 at 3:42am | IP Logged | ||
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So I was planning on getting more stuff done yesterday, but I ended up troubling myself with worldly matters and going straight to bed.
Up to now I've finished twelve lessons of Pimsleur and it's mostly just taught me a few terrible ways to ask French people out, how to ask for the time (presumably so that I can know for sure that I've been stood up) and how to bargain like an asshole (as if drinking all that vodka by myself hadn't been enough). I suppose the next lesson will teach me things like "I'm waiting for a friend" and "what YOU lookin' at?". But it's been very helpful for my pronunciation — unlike Michel Thomas, who focuses a lot on pushing you forward with meanings and some comprehension, Pimsleur gives you plenty of opportunities to practice the funnier sounds. Plus it has native speakers, though it seems like they're speaking a good deal slower than they would in practice. As for MT, it got a bit rushed near the end of Basic, and I got pretty confused with the tenses and some words and expressions he went through. I hope this stuff will be taught again on Advanced. One of my most frequent mistakes during the review was saying something like "je vais le voir" when I actually mean "je vais vous voir". Not sure why. French for Reading, as I'd supposed, did get steeply tougher, and I had a little bit of trouble in chapter four with all the past tense stuff. I hadn't studied this yet, unlike the very basic stuff the book had been throwing at me until now, but in the end I managed to sort of go along and get pretty much everything right. New vocabulary!: • accueillir: to receive • ainsi: thus, in this way • au dehors: to the outside, outward • cependant: however • ci-dessus: above • le confrère: the colleague • la contrée: the land, the region • creuser: to dig, to widen • d'une/autre part: in the one/other hand • découler: to follow, to ensue • décrire: to describe • le dégagement: the release, the emission ("disengagement") • en effet: in fact • l'exposé (m): the account, the report, the lecture • le galet: the pebble • gras: (nm) the fat, (adj) fatty • laisser: to let, to leave ("laissez faire!") • prétendre: to affirm, to claim • produire: to produce • la puissance: the power, the agent • refouler: to expulse, to push toward... • rèussir à: to succeed in • toujours: can also mean "still", as in "nous ne connaissons toujours pas cette théorie" Cavesa and jhaberstro, merci pour les conseils! J'ai en effet un livre de lecture, le Easy French Reader, mais je pense qu'il va être trop facile après j'ai finis French for Reading. Alors je vais peut-être essayer de le lire bientôt si j'ai le temps. Et lire BDs et traductions est une bonne idée! Je veux acheter Persepolis parce qu'il semble très bon, mais c'est trop cher (en Français c'est US$69 au Book Depository!). Il y a aussi des auteurs italiens qui je voudrais lire; j'ai pensé en les lire en portugais, parce que le portugais est plus proche de l'italien que l'anglais, mais le français semble encore plus proche, alors ça peut-être une bonne idée pour quand je suis meilleur avec le français! Edited by nystagmatic on 13 February 2013 at 3:55am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| nystagmatic Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 4135 days ago 47 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French Studies: German | Message 5 of 7 19 February 2013 at 1:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Alright, I've been slacking off a bit on the log, but my studies are still going at a decent pace.
I'm halfway done with MT Advanced, having skipped the Language Builder for now. On this second CD he went through a lot of passé composé stuff, which was very useful. He also went a bit into other tenses and moods, but I think I'll have to pick them up better from elsewhere because his coverage was very superficial. It's cool how he arrived more or less logically to the form "voudriais", which Pimsleur had taught me dogmatically at the very beginning. Among other things, three useful pieces of advice he's given so far in Advanced are: (1) in the imperative mood, the object goes after the verb ("vendez le" instead of "le vendez"); (2) the "-ent" in third person plural conjugations makes the preceding vowel to be sounded (so "vends" is pronounced "ven" but "vendent" is pronounced "vend"), which should have been obvious but which I had completely missed; and (3) the "short Ls come before the long Ls" in ditransitive verbs ("je vais vous l'envoyer" if I'll send it to you but "je vais le lui envoyer" if I'll send it to him). Go figure. I've finished the 23rd lesson of Pimsleur French I, and it's finally starting to teach me new things instead of just revising what I'd learned from MT and Duolingo. I'm not sure whether it's subtly humorous at times or if I just have a borked sense of humor and a slight tendency to hallucinate; either way, it's good because I can do it while doing chores and such, unlike MT, which demands constant love towards the pause button. And as for French for Reading, I'm done with Chapter 8, which was the only one so far that actually made me sweat a little bit. I'm getting a little bored with this book because it's so repetitive, but I'm going to make an effort to tread on anyway. It's been doing wonders to my comprehension. I might not be able to do a chapter a day as I'd hoped, but I plan to be done with the remaining 13 chapters and all the readings in no more than a month. The most deeply disturbing thing it's taught me so far is that at the beginning of a sentence, followed by an inversion of the subject and verb, ["aussi"] indicates consequence and is translated as "therefore". "Aussi existe-t-il des cidres..." = "Therefore there are some ciders..." What the hell, you guys? Recent new vocabulary: • l'avenir (m): the future • le brouillard: fog • le chemin: the road, the path, the way (cognate Pt. "caminho") • le fleuve: the river • le nuage: the cloud • le poids: the weight • le sel: the salt • le singe: the monkey • le soin: neatness, tidiness • le trouble: the disturbance, the distress • le vol: the flight; the theft, the robbery; the swarm, the flock • les airs (pl.): atmosphere • la couche: the layer; the bed • l'essence (f): a funny word for gasoline • l'église (f): the church • la façon: the way; the making, the fashioning; the sort, the kind, the type • la figure: the face; the figure • la fusée: the rocket • la gare: the railroad station • la pesanteur: the weight; the gravity • la peur: the fear • la teinte: the tint • la voix: voice • accorder: to grant, to bestow • affaiblir: to weaken • alors: then • avant: before, in front • brosser: to brush, to polish, to shine • brouiller: to mix together, to confuse, to blur • brune: brown • cacher: to hide • car: for, because • chacun: each one, each and every • devenir: to become • devouer: to devote • éloigner: to take away, to keep away, to separate; to keep at bay; to banish • emporter: to take; to take/blow/carry away • empêcher: to prevent, to hinder • épais: thick • entraîner: to entail; to exercise, to train, to coach; to pull/drag (somebody) down/along • fin: clever, fine, subtle • foncé: dark • fort: strong; can mean the same as "très" • habile: clever, skillful • jusqu'à: until, as far as, up to the time of • loin: far, distant • lorsque: when, as soon as • partout: everywhere • parvenir: to reach, to get to; to succeed • peureux: timid, fearful, apprehensive • pire: worse (adverb; opposite to "meilleur"; think of Pt. "bem"/"mal") • pis: worse (adjective; opposite to "mieux"; think of Pt. "bom"/"mau") • polis: polite; polished, smooth, shiny • pourtant: however (FALSE cognate w/ Pt. "portanto" = "therefore") • pousser: to grow; to urge, to encourage • presque: almost ("presque vu"!) • prévenir: to prevent; to warn (FALSE cognate w/ Pt. "prevenir", which means only "to prevent") • près: near, close • puis: then, finally; also, moreover • rapporter: to bring back; to report • remarquer: to notice, to see • s'habiller: to dress oneself • se coucher: to go down; to go to bed • semblable: similar • soigneusement: avec soin: carefully • sous: under; inside • suffire: to suffice • toutefois: however • tromper: to deceive • vers: toward • verser: to pour; to transfer, to deposit; to assign, to allocate • au-dessus de: above • au-dessous de: beneath • autour de: around • d'abord: first of all • d'autant plus/moins: proportionally more/less • enchanté: a funny way to say "nice to meet you" — is this as formal or as sparkly in French as it is in English and Portuguese? • il arrive que/de: it happens that/to • il s'agit de: it's a question of, it concerns • lors de: at the time of, during • plutôt que: rather than • tandis que: while, whereas • tout à coup: suddenly • tout à fair: completely • tout droit: straight ahead J'ai été me demandant quand est-ce que je dois commencer à lire cette grammaire que j'ai. Assimil n'a pas arrivé encore, mais peut-être c'est serait bonne savoir déjà quelques règles de grammaire, que je pense que Assimil n’enseigne pas (est-ce vrai?). Quelques opinions? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5358 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 7 19 February 2013 at 1:53am | IP Logged | ||
I think you want something more like Je me demandais quand je… (I was asking myself when I…). Corrections welcome, of course—it's pretty much guaranteed that if I correct someone online, I'm going to make a dumb mistake myself. In general, a form like demandant will never appear in a French compound verb. The closest equivalents are the imperfect je demandais (roughly "I was asking") and, in the present tense, je suis en train de demander (roughly "I'm in the process of asking"). And you don't normally want to use est-ce que for relative clauses. As for grammar books, you can either rely on Assimil's footnotes and review lessons, which are reasonable, or pick up something short and sweet like Essential French Grammar. If you prefer a real grammar workbook with exercises, check out the Grammaire progressive du français series. Good luck with your French studies! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| nystagmatic Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 4135 days ago 47 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French Studies: German | Message 7 of 7 19 February 2013 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks, emk — I've been trying to write much beyond my current level here, so I'm bound to make some unsightly mistakes. :P (And it seems I used the same misplaced "est-ce que" that jhaberstro had already warned me against...)
I already own a grammar book, the Practice Makes Perfect Complete French Grammar. I haven't read any of it, but skimming through it looks decent. The Grammaire progressive du français looks great, but it's pretty expensive, so I guess I'll try to work with what I've got for now. Maybe I'll get the Essential French Grammar too for an alternate take on the subject, since it's so cheap! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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