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How do the Swedish learn English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 25 of 61 13 March 2013 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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In Dutch it certainly does. I am not sure about Swedish. I remember having to learn lists
of translations for Dutch terminology when I was taught mathematics in English during high school (I did a bilingual programme). Especially mathematics has coined many of its own terms. They are in common parlance. Edited by tarvos on 13 March 2013 at 4:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4863 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 26 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have seen a similar trend in Finland too, like the one Ari describes in the beginning
of this thread. In my opinion, this happens because English is more than a language, it's a tool that bestows status upon the proficient speaker, grants access to international job-seeking and puts you at the forefront of world events, to name a few points. It's like knowing how to use a computer or a modern cell phone. I also agree that producing material for universities in the native language of a given country might be quite expensive. In Finland it seems to be the case, where past a certain threshold, every textbook is in English (at least in the areas I'm familiar with). I can't speak for everybody, but in my book, I like to be able to speak about everything I know in the languages I know. That includes my mother tongue too. Putting an English cognate in the middle of non-English speech slightly bothers me, and I always seek possible translations/interpretations. Perhaps I'm a bit of a purist/language romantic :) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 27 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it really helps not having the expectation that your language group is the only one you need. I have worked at university in Germany, and even in international doctoral programs, where English is the official language, students are reluctant to use it. It's not that they aren't able to speak, it's just that they aren't exposed to it very often, and uncomfortable with its use. There is plenty of German media to view, and it's rare to find anyone who prefers subtitles over dubbed versions of TV or movies. I think this is why the Spanish, Germans, French, and English are disadvantaged in learning 2nd languages.
It's surprising how limiting this can be. I am looking for German translations of some English authors I like, and it's surprising now often books have apparently not been translated (or for that matter how often films with smaller releases aren't available either). If this is true for Germany, it must be much more so the case in countries like Sweden where if you don't speak English you are going to miss out on a great deal of books and films. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4640 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 28 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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Many interesting contributions here. As regards terminology, from my experience it depends a lot on the sector or area of work. Certainly in Norway there exsists a Norwegian terminology for e.g. medicine, but the professionals (doctors) will often use the technical terms, which are Greek or Latin words. In engineering, IT and similar, professionals will more often use English terminology (and e.g. oil companies in Norway often have English as their working language due to many foreign employees).
As regards films and books, firstly films are never dubbed in Norway, with the exception of children movies, because you don't expect a 6-year old to be able to read subtitles. As for literature, of course well known authors and bestsellers are translated into Norwegian, but if you are after less "commercial" literature, you'll have to turn to the original. That being said, I think a lot more is translated from English than from other languages such as Italian or Spanish. And finally, as Norwegians are starting to turn to e-books, they buy even more English literature in the original, since Norwegian e-books are few, very expensive and the technical solutions chosen by the big editorials are not good at all. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 29 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | ||
You could easily build a great career in France or Germany without needing to know other languages, or at least not to have a fantastic grasp of them. Like you say, there is also a vast amount of literature and media available in the major European languages. But I see that as a strength rather than a limitation. Germany runs on German and France functions in French. If you go to live in these lands there is heavy social expectation to learn the language in order to fit in. Expecting other people to always accomodate you in English can irritate them. This is less true in places like Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. These socities are more geared to using English alongside the native language. But it does lead to incomers keeping the local tongue at arms length, and I'm not sure if that is a good thing. Edited by beano on 13 March 2013 at 5:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 30 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think the big question is whether people use English on a regular basis. In Germany people are taught English at school, but many probably don't use it after school on a regular basis at all. I can easily imagine getting by for weeks with minimal English. I can't imagine that's the case in Sweden or Holland, where even if you don't speak the language, you will definitely be using it when you watch TV or read books.
My wife, who grew up in Germany near the Dutch border, used to be taken on school excursions to Holland so they could see English films, which probably tells you everything you need to know why the Dutch speak better English. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 31 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||
You could easily live in Germany with no English at all. There are actually many people with German heritage who grew up in the USSR and came to live in Germany after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Most of them have become perfectly fluent in German but can't speak much English. I know several people in this category who seem to be doing just fine. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 32 of 61 13 March 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | ||
The problem comes in when you work in anything that is internationally based. I know the university system in Germany quite well, and for various reasons it just isn't as good as the UK or USA, despite the relative wealth of the country. A big contributing factor is that the system runs on German, despite English having become the defacto language of science. My wife works in London at one of the top universities, and in her department there is only ONE British academic. All the rest are German, Dutch, Swedish, Australian, Israeli etc. She is now considering a job in Germany, and of course it was advertised in German, and the only candidates were German or Austrian. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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