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How do the Swedish learn English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 41 of 61 14 March 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
You have made a very good argument. It does seem as if Germany is underperforming in the global university rankings. I guess nations like the Netherlands have handed over their advanced academic programmes more or less entirely to the English language. I think it's a bit more difficult to persuade larger countries like Germany and France to do that. German was used internationally in science until well into the 80s. Even today in Eastern Germany, there are senior academics who have little knowledge of English (although they may well know Russian). English has become the defacto language in so many areas of modern life. I don't want to see German universities become primarily English-speaking institutions, but yes, perhaps they do need to freshen up their approach. Edited by beano on 14 March 2013 at 1:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 42 of 61 14 March 2013 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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How does scientific activity depend on the language of instruction? All those
international ratings do not show the real situation and do not matter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 43 of 61 14 March 2013 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think there are other problems in the German university system, notably the well recognized lack of a proper tenure track system, which leads to many good people leaving the country permanently after their PhDs. There are a lot of German professors in England, for instance, because they couldn't get secure jobs after they finished studying. So I certainly don't think language is the only problem. As I understand it, the Max Planck Institutes only use English, and it shows in their research output. I used to work in a German lab, and my post/doctoral colleagues were Russian, Israeli, Maltese, Dutch, Australian, and German, and of course we spoke English. Do you know what happens in international banking? Do people in Frankfurt work in English too for similar reasons? Alot of the start-ups here in Berlin use English as their working language. Which has the advantage of getting lots of international talent, but of course also limits these "ex-pats" integrating into broader society, which is another problem. Edited by patrickwilken on 14 March 2013 at 1:56pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 44 of 61 14 March 2013 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Scandinavian people have more contact with English, than Germans or French have, that's all.
In French medical schools, professors and students use books written in France, by French scientists/doctors. The same thing happens in Germany (and Austria): German/Austrian authors are preferred to American/UK authors. Scandiavian doctors rely heavily on UK/US published material. I've seen a list of books/material required for residents in psychiatry in Germany, and there are no books written by English or American authors. All psychiatry books German residents need to learn from are written in German, by German (and sometimes Austrian and Swiss authors). German-speaking psychiatrists think like this ''We practically invented psychiatry and psychotherapy, if we learned from American/British books, this would be our end''... It's always easier to translate a British or an American textbook than to write a good textbook in one's own language. France and Germany have good professors and scientists (and $$$ government funding), that's why they don't need to translate foreign textbooks and import/promote foreign scientific views. They have their own ''style''. / For example, Germany, Austria and Switzerland have the best psychotherapy in the world, and the approach in treatment is much different than in the US where psychiatrists prefer putting everyone on pills (even those who don't need it at all)... German medical research is one of the best in the world, last time I checked the first person who was cured of HIV was an American living in Germany (''Berlin patient''). Maybe the German medical schools are not the best in the world, and German doctors may be underpaid, and they may speak English with an accent, but when you see all discoveries they made, all you can see is the fact they're top notch professionals. / It's the same thing with the dubbing industry: it's always easier and cheaper to put subtitles on everything, than to develop quality dubbing industry. When done in a good way, dubbing can resemble art, and it's so perfect you don't even notice you're watching a dubbed movie. Edited by Medulin on 14 March 2013 at 11:32pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Steffen Newbie Germany Joined 4972 days ago 27 posts - 63 votes Studies: German* | Message 45 of 61 24 March 2013 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
Is that the reason why Germany fares so badly compared to other countries in the EU like, say, Portugal, Spain, Ireland etc. (to say nothing of the sad state which its foreign trade is in)? Seriously, when German Phd's find jobs all over the world, that might as well be a sign of their being well educated. It's true that the German education system has been watered down over the past decades. However, not in the way you are suggesting, but, as I see it, in an ill-advised attempt to make it more compatible with the supposedly more "international" Anglo-Saxon model. Please keep in mind that German is the most widespread language in Europe. So suggesting to replace it with English at German and Austrian universities is not completely unlike recommending that universities in the US should teach in Spanish (which has more native speakers than English, by the way). I'm certainly not a nationalist, not even a patriot. But I am fairly patriotic when it comes to my native tongue. And I find it hard to accept that a forum dedicated to the global richness and multitude of languages should advocate the use of one single language everywhere. Which it fortunately doesn't. Edited by Steffen on 24 March 2013 at 1:52pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 46 of 61 24 March 2013 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't actually disagree with much, if any, of what you say. My wife and I both have academic backgrounds. She was educated in Germany and currently is working in London, and her graduate training was good enough to get a job. In term of academic achievements (at least in science) Germany currently is performing below the UK (and perhaps Holland in some areas), but better than anywhere else. Having said that, this is mostly due to the research output of the MPIs, not the universities. The very top names in philosophy, which I have some acquaintance with are largely unknown outside the country. Whether that matters or not, depends on your perspective. It's still relatively OK to publish in German in the humanities, and so of course, no one else in the World reads their publications/books. Does that matter? It depends on what future you see for German and it's academic system. I am actually pretty patriotic/nationalistic about Germany and it's future and would like to see it regain it's role as a leader in academic discourse. If things change here, it will because young German academics will want to be part of the broader academic discourse. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 47 of 61 25 March 2013 at 10:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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Gessica De Angelis in ''Third or Additional Language Acquisition''
gives some examples of Swedish English: 1. ‘at the time he works in a fabric’ (Swedish fabrik = ‘factory’); 2. ‘The next day we grounded a club’ (Swedish grunda= ‘found’); 3. ‘ The hound is the best friend of man’ (Swedish hund= ‘dog’, occasionally also ‘hound’) Edited by Medulin on 25 March 2013 at 11:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 48 of 61 25 March 2013 at 11:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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Factory is almost like this :)))
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