|
 |
Ancient China and Roman Empire: how? | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4950 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 10 24 March 2013 at 2:13am | IP Logged |
|
I was wondering about this just now, so I had to ask. There is almost no doubt that
Rome and China had contact, albeit very tenuous. The Chinese saw Rome and their culture as basically some sort of upside-down version of themselves, in order to balance the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-Chinese_relations How would a Roman emissary communicate in China?? I really down there would be any Roman the knew Old Chinese, or a Chinese that had learned Latin. The first thing that comes to mind is a sort of "telephone" game. Perhaps something like "Chinese person that knows Sanskrit speaks to Sanskrit person that knows Classical Greek, who talks to Greek person that knows Latin". Or is that just crazy? What are theories about old contact between far away cultures? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| s0fist Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5047 days ago 260 posts - 445 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Sign Language, German, Spanish, French | Message 2 of 10 24 March 2013 at 6:44am | IP Logged |
|
If only there was a way that little tiny people-like creatures could learn to speak tongues without dictionaries and priests with large rulers giving them stern looks. :)
P.S. Yes I realize dictionaries and for that matter priests predate Romano-Chinese relations by a couple thousand years, but being raised bilingually just seems to me to have a kind of primeval power that extends far into the past, and even further into my sentimentality, towards the cradle of humanity. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| berabero89 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4643 days ago 101 posts - 137 votes Speaks: English, Amharic* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, French | Message 3 of 10 24 March 2013 at 7:58am | IP Logged |
|
Actually, I've wondered about this sort of thing whenever I've heard of cultures mixing
(e.g. the Native Americans and the Europeans). I remember reading about how some sailors were shipwrecked and caught in Korea and learned the language through pure immersion though (this was before modern times, btw), so maybe the language barrier was broken simply by immersion? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 4 of 10 24 March 2013 at 10:23am | IP Logged |
|
How do missionaries learn the unrecorded languages of Amazonian tribes? Yes, by immersion. You don't need an Assimil course, a reference grammar, and a dictionary with 150,000 entries in order to learn another language.
6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| htdavidht Diglot Groupie United States Joined 4624 days ago 68 posts - 121 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French | Message 5 of 10 24 March 2013 at 11:39am | IP Logged |
|
I understand Roma and China where big trading nations. So i guess it was common to find bilinguals all over the place. Especially merchants, and diplomats who where settled in foreign lands.
The sames as how Roma had contact with Egypt, Israel, the goth tribes at the north, the African nations, many people on Russia... I am not sure about the history of China on this period of time (the roman empire) but I am sure they where ready well establish empire and big traders way before Romulo and Remo were even born. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 6 of 10 24 March 2013 at 3:03pm | IP Logged |
|
Well, the first difference: Egypt, Israel, Goth tribes and african nations had to find
a wayto communicate with the Rome as they were either conquered or under the threat of being conquered all the time. In Russia, there were probably merchants who could speak Latin. But China didn't need Rome for anything. It was a huge power, a self-sufficient country, a rich country which has always been dealing with the question whether to close the borders entirely. Rome and China had little in common, so the need to learn each others languages was fairly limited. Sure, there could have been a few bilinguals, some diplomats and so on but I doubt it was a well spread phenomenon. Well, of course pure immersion works, no matter where or when, especially when your life quite depends on it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| htdavidht Diglot Groupie United States Joined 4624 days ago 68 posts - 121 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French | Message 7 of 10 25 March 2013 at 7:24am | IP Logged |
|
Cavesa, some clarifications:
Rome was not up to conquer Egypt, as a mater of fact it was Cleopatra's political manipulations that ended up bringing the roman troops to stabilize the country after a dreadful Persian invasion and a Greek administration that was becoming weak. Rome never had intentions of conquer Israel. The conquer times where at the time of the expansion and mostly over Mediterranean countries. Rome eventually become more political than military on their foreign policies, they establish a treaty with Israel, there was a fair deal for both parties, we can see how much Israel benefit from this for example on all the engineering projects that where leaded by Herod, the most famous of them was the the second temple. The African nations, was a big mess for Rome, there was a big empire there, the Punics. There was a clash between this 2 titans, it is fair to say Rome wanted to conquer Cartage as much as Cartage wanted to conquer Rome. We can see for example the incursion Hannibal made trough the Alps and the so. There was not more motivation for the Punics to learn Latin as for the Romans to learn Carthaginian. Still people in both sides did learn the others language. The Goths have a long history with the empire. Basically they where people from Russian territories who where seeking refuge from the Huns. Rome agree to protect them and let them settle at the north of the Empire but Rome didn't respect them as they saw them as cowards. So they where heavily taxed and mistreated, it is say the parents sold their kids as slaves to the Romans for dog meat so they can feed the little ones whom eventually will be sold as well. The leaders of the Goths complain about this situations, the Romans conspire to kill the leaders but the plot was discover and they enter into a war, where the Goths started to invade the Empire and defeat the centurions on the fight, they even kill one Emperor. However Rome mastering on political arts divided the Goths into many groups for example the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Merovingians... and so on, the idea was the to divide and conquer. So they support one again the other and hope they all kill themselves. Eventually Rome did a deal with one of the Goth groups, you see, Rome had a long fight with the Dacians, a kingdom on Russian territory. And even though at the time they where in control of the main cities, there was a lot of guerrillas like attacks and people was organizing all the time to defeat the Romans. So the Romans promised to the Goths the land of the Dacians, and it is say on each house where a Dacian was killed a Goth was placed. Then Rome toke out the soldiers leaving the country to the Goths with a treaty of commerce and good neighbors. Talking about the neighbors, at this time the Goths, after some 400 years of contact with the Romans, talked some sort of Latin, so the surrounding kingdoms though this people where Romans and called them that way the "Romanians". Anyway no all the Goths trusted the offer of the Romans, they though it was a trap to kill them so they stay to fight the empire, but on reduced number, of course. About China, they where international traders and they where always looking for new commerce routes and products. I don't really see them "dealing with the question whether to close the borders entirely". That sounds more like Japan. And when Japan did ban any trade with China, the Chinese starting to contraband with Japan trough Okinawa. But as I say, I don't really know the history of China that well. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Duke100782 Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Philippines https://talktagalog.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4489 days ago 172 posts - 240 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin | Message 8 of 10 25 March 2013 at 4:09pm | IP Logged |
|
Outcast, I do imagine that there must have times when a sort of translation telephone game must have
been used in imperial courts for communicating and corresponding with distant empires and kingdoms. Just thinking of what this must have been like is exciting. 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
