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Are English speakers lazy with languages? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 37 08 April 2013 at 10:06am | IP Logged |
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I've heard of many cases where an English speaker spends a few years in a country where a different
langage is spoken and even after this time they can barely function in the language, if at all. I'm not generalising here, I know that many English natives do learn the host language successfully but there seems to be a sizeable number who simply don't make the effort. I've even heard of people who are married to a native speaker abroad, yet still refuse to learn. If you come to an English-speaking country with no intention of learning English, you will end up highly marginalised, yet there seems to be opt-out clauses available the other way round, in some lands more so than others. Does this happen when speakers of other languages move to another country? Are there Dutch people in Spain who make no effort with Spanish? Do Russians move to Germany and expect to lead their whole life in Russian....and so on. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 37 08 April 2013 at 10:26am | IP Logged |
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There are no opt-out clauses available anywhere, but lazy people exist everywhere and
will take advantage of simplified situations whenever they can. In the Netherlands, it's not just English people who laze about, people from everywhere do it. Immigrants learning the language often get demotivated and end up in a bubble where they only interact with local native speakers out of necessity - this exists everywhere. It is not just Americans speaking Dutch (although I came across one that spoke Dutch well the other day, just with a very heavy American accent - it's the "r" that gives you away!). This happens to everyone I think. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4658 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 3 of 37 08 April 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged |
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Let's start this way: All the people are, more or less, lazy. We need something to push us out of this - circumstances, the motivation to succeed, interest in something, or simply the need to survive in a country we don't speak the language of.
Combine it with personality - some people will have no interest in learning the language. Some of them will decide to learn the new language, some of them will go out looking for ways not to do it. I know German speakers who have spent more than 2 years in Czech republic and cannot (or are not willing to) greet you in Czech or order a beer. And I know German speakers who learned in the same time and in the same circumstances to understand almost everything and to express themselves in all situations - sometimes with big difficulties, sometimes searching for words, but certainly getting their point across. And these are people who are not interested in languages and would say that they are bad in it. It is simply easier for English speakers to avoid learning a new language than for a Czech speaker in English speaking country - but even for the Czech speaker it might be possible. Will both be poorer for it? Certainly. Could both learn at least to function in the language? Of course. But unless there is a pressing need, unless it is simply easier to learn the new language, some people won't do it. The only difference between the both is that the "pressing need" might be less pressing for the English speaking person :) 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Raincrowlee Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 6703 days ago 621 posts - 808 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Indonesian, Japanese | Message 4 of 37 08 April 2013 at 11:49am | IP Logged |
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There are "opt-out clauses" everywhere. I lived in LA for a while, and I knew a couple of Chinese speakers who spoke no English, but lived in Alhambra, which was one of many communities around there where Mandarin was the primary language.
LA is actually a patchwork of many different culture and language zones. Spanish is the primary one, but there are Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Persian, Russian, Armenian, Cambodian, and countless other ethnic groups clustered around the city. A speaker of those languages could (and do) go a long time without learning English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4640 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 5 of 37 08 April 2013 at 12:07pm | IP Logged |
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While I of course agree strongly with the view that you should learn the language of the country where you live, I can sort of understand why some people do not. A lot of Scandinavians move to Spain more or less on a permanent basis when they retire. They tend to go to areas where there are many other Scandinavians, and so they can function well with very little or no Spanish. For example, there is a big Norwegian colony not far from Alicante, where there is a Norwegian school, a Norwegian church, Norwegian doctors and dentists, Norwegian solicitors, Norwegian pubs and restaurants etc. A 67-year old who moves there to escape the long winters and the high cost of living in Norway will most likely not make a big effort to learn Spanish. I don't judge that too harshly (although I think it is a pity).
I am however much less understanding if a 30-year old Norwegian goes to Madrid or Paris to work for some years and does not make the slightest effort to learn the language but expects everyone to communicate in English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4534 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 6 of 37 08 April 2013 at 4:00pm | IP Logged |
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In Berlin there is a permanent class of expats who can manage to exist because they mostly hang out together and can speak English.
To give you a sense of how much ex-pats love learning foreign languages, check out this guest blog post in a very prominent English language blog, run by two British Berliners: http://www.uberlin.co.uk/wie-bitte-ranting-back-at-exberline r/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| JohannaNYC Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4453 days ago 251 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, Italian Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 7 of 37 08 April 2013 at 5:55pm | IP Logged |
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The situation you described is quite normal in NYC, whether it's Spanish, Russian,
Chinese speakers or others, people can work and attend to their every day needs with very little to no English. It's not just old people either, people arrive in their 20s and 30s and just stay in neighborhoods where their natives languages are spoken, then they have children who learn English in school and WE serve as their translators should they ever have to venture out of their safe haven. I don't understand the mentality behind this kind of laziness, but then again I'm the weird sheep of the family. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Carlucio Triglot Groupie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4859 days ago 70 posts - 113 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC1, Spanish Studies: Mandarin | Message 8 of 37 08 April 2013 at 6:08pm | IP Logged |
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It may happen in some European countries, but here in Brazil if don't learn portuguese you are screwed, even more than not speaking English in US.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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