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Motivating yourself more effectively | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Tigresuisse Triglot Senior Member SwitzerlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6007 days ago 182 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian | Message 25 of 53 25 August 2008 at 11:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I have a question ... Jymmymac, as I really liked your first post, could you please share with us one of your study plan????
I love planning, and I try to plan everything I can ... thank you for the posts. Thanks Marta 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6155 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 26 of 53 25 August 2008 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah thats fine I shall give an outline of my plan. I'm out of time for today but I shall try and add it tomorrow.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6449 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 27 of 53 25 August 2008 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Jimmymac: "What I find slightly saddening is the high number of personal learning logs that have started out so full of energy and enthusiasm only to fizzle away a couple of weeks or months later with nothing more said on the subject".
It's normal. Perhaps they were enthusiastic about the idea itself and less so with the actual task. "I myself have been guilty a number of times of starting a new activity (playing the guitar) with the best of intentions only to see my motivation die away. Fortunately, through my studies of psychology, criminology, and Neuro-linguistic programming I have learnt a great deal on motivation." Can you elaborate on this? "I went from failing twice in my attempts to study Spanish, and once in Mandarin, to successfully putting in 350 hours of study in 8 months in Spanish while working full time and doing a masters and now I devote 3 hours a day to French, Spanish, and Mandarin, on-top-of running, going to the gym, working full time, and playing football; and I guarantee that this level of intensity will continue. How can I guarantee that?" You can guarantee anything. You can also break all your promises. "The answer is I have truly learned how to frighten the life out of myself and how to get my self excited (not that sort of excitement!)". Something naughty? You know, even naughty stuff may work if it's language-related. Sir Richard Burton got a kick out of it. " For a while now psychologists, mainly in the realm of sport and business, have mapped out some important steps for goal setting (but not all). These are: 1) "Be clear about what you want. In other words what level of proficiency you want to achieve in a language. How can one be motivated about a task which is unclear to them"? One thing you have to decide is what language you want to study. The rest is optional. Your own abilities may be unclear to you and you may even underestimate yourself. The ultimate goal may dictate the need for a certain level of proficiency. You, or someone else may decide to set a certain level of proficiency as your ultimate goal, without determining any particular need for attaining this skill ("school"). You may not care about the proficiency level you will achieve and have no particular goal in mind, but still be crystal clear and motivated about undertaking the task. This may result in pleasant surprises. Do I need to decide whether I want or am able to become a professional player even before throwing a few hoops? Language learning is often compared to sport - the similarity exists - learning repetitive skills etc. but overall language learning is a very different ... ball game. Individual preparedness, emotions etc. about undertaking what's necessary to reach the goal will vary. One may fail to even attempt the task despite a strong motivation. One may achieve the task even with lukewarm motivation. 2)"Set realistic goals. Read the fsi rating scale for time frames for learning specific languages. Take your learning resources into account when doing this. Just as importantly, take time constraints into account. If you set unrealistic goals you will become disheartened when progress is slower than expected. This a guaranteed way to kill motivation." Now, what's a realistic goal? How do you know you're not shortchanging yourself? In my opinion and experience most people will underestimate their abilities. They'll end up thinking they bit off more than they could chew when in fact they were only nibbling. Heh. 3)"Find out the exact steps necessary to achieve your goal. I cant stress how important this is. If I had have read this website before I started my Spanish studies I would have saved countless hours using the 'wrong' material." What steps? The right method? How do you decide you've been using the wrong materials? Trial and error is inevitable. 5)"Create a study chart. I strongly recommend ProfArgualles's spreadsheet on his website. I would make a number of additions to it however. I would add 2 more columns to his spreadsheet. The first one could be labelled 'target hours this month'. In which you would write the amount of hours you need to study each month. The next column would be 'hours studied so far', which of course would be all the hours studied so far this month. This is a superb way of keeping you on your toes." This may work for some people. Military types. Neat freaks. You know. It could also be cruel and unusual punishment for someone else. 6)"Reward yourself for reaching certain landmarks." What sort of a reward? If it's language-related, sure. But if the reward is to take a break, that's bad. Baad. "Now that you have these points steadily in place its time for the good stuff. In my opinion the most important step of all is to find out exactly why you want to achieve this goal and what you will lose by not achieving it. This is where juice of motivation lies. Its the difference between success and failure. If your reasons are so incredibly compelling then you will be able to achieve it at all cost." Well if you put it this way, you first have to decide on the goal and then work towards achieving the proficiency level necessary to accomplish this goal. And what if your reasons are not so compelling? Very strong motivation constantly churns inside, it pushes or it pulls, it does not need to be described, artificially fed or analyzed. "Just look how determined drug addicts are to get their drugs and how successful they inevitably are most of the time. They are so single minded that many of them become freelance chemists and learn to create their own drugs, even at the cost of their own lives at times." Yes, but your whole plan is about delayed gratification. They do it for instant gratification. And they have a pressing need, a chemical dependency. Sort of like AJATT. "Let me be more clear on this: 1) Write down and strongly visualize on a daily basis all the great things you are going to experience once you achieve this goal." Do you think the addicts need to do this? Do you think they need to visualise their fix in order to go about their business? There's a very strong suggestion here that you will not experience much pleasure while trying to achieve the set goal. That's ok with me but others might not like it. Also, trying to visualize the reward strikes me as artificial and betrays a lack of "real" motivation. Most likely people will come up with mental pictures of places they want to travel to etc and after a while this will evaporate. It's also a real mental effort that keeps you away from achieving your goals. It's much easier to get a few posters (naked anime chicks or the Eiffel tower, whatever's your fancy). If your thoughts wander away to how great it would be to... that's good. If you have to force yourself to think about it, this is not so good. 3)"Write down all the negative things that would become of you or that you would miss out on should you fail with your goal. My personal motivator is the fear of failure in the eyes of the people I care about." That's unnecessary. If there was a real motivation to begin with, it naturally springs to mind that delaying or postponing the act will also postpone the gratification. Ideally the act itself would be a gratification (like with your addicts) and the person would hardly notice sailing across the finish line. Negative motivation may be good for short-term goals. In the long run it destroys morale and creates resentment. "The beauty of finding both positive and negative motivators is that a propulsion system of sorts is created whereby you are simultaneously pushed and pulled in the same direction." As long as you realize that you're artificially producing the fuel - which is ok with me. Another way of doing it would be simply through cold determination. Perhaps easier too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6155 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 28 of 53 26 August 2008 at 6:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Reineke,
Thanks for the questions. Please see below. Reineke-'It's normal. Perhaps they were enthusiastic about the idea itself and less so with the actual task.' Precisely. If they had attempted to map out the task beforehand they might have become aware of the magnitude of it. Reineke-'Can you elaborate on this?' Ok. During my studies of sport psychology, about 5 years ago, I was exposed to the different ways track athletes set out their plan for the season. Some even planned as far as 3 years in advance. Never was it a turn up as and when and do what you will. Their goals were very specific. How to reach these goals were planned out with the coach; as were the training sessions, diet etc. A journal was kept on their progress; constantly seeking improvements. All of this made sense to me, and I found the idea very appealing. There is a vast area of research on goal setting so I would advise you to look about to see what interests you if you care to. At this point my motivation lay with socializing partying. No matter how I tried to set about a task I would inevitably become bored or disinterested. I became interested in Neuro-linguistic Programming shortly after where I developed understanding of a wonderful technique called anchoring. Please see this website for an understanding of NLP. http://www.nlp-world.com/directory/NLP_Information/ Anchoring allows a person to more effectively prime themselves for a future behaviour. The principles are pavlovian in nature. Essentially, one is to revivify a previous powerfully motivating experience while using some external stimuli to anchor (could be a smell, touch, image) the state. Next time one wishes to elicit this state one is to simply fire off the anchor. Before, I receive a load of messages regarding how this codswallop. Think about when you've walked past someone wearing a familiar cologne and it has brought you back to a particular memory of someone. Or when you have heard a song that has regressed to an earlier time. These are all anchors and learning to have an element of control over them allows you to have more control of your life in general. In fact, Cognitive behaviour therapies seek out the anchors that cause people to feel depression, or that cause previous drug abusers to abuse again. Once these anchors are found the aim is then to attempt to neutralize them. Imagine how useful it could be to understand why on certain days you don’t feel motivated to study. After becoming acquainted with NLP I went on to become a qualified practitioner. I went from heavily partying to studying hard, exercising daily, and generally feeling much more in control and happy with the direction I was going in. While studying Criminology I came across various pieces of research, one of which was cited by Steve Hall (who I strongly recommend), showing that a number of criminals in the North East of England would make money through criminal activities would then go and buy expensive clothing in reputable shop for themselves. When questioned it was found that they could have easily gotten these through illegitimate and cheaper means but the physical act of buying these was very important to them. One of the most important reasons it was so important was so that they could be seen coming out of these shops buying these clothes. That way no one would consider them tramps. Their main motivator was to steer away from a negative image. I had already found out the power of negative anchors through NLP but research like this and much more only served to bolster my belief. I hoped this has been what you wanted. Reineke-'You can guarantee anything. You can also break all your promises.' Quite right. Reineke-'Something naughty? You know, even naughty stuff may work if it's language-related. Sir Richard Burton got a kick out of it.' I was simply adding a little bit of humour. I particularly enjoy the 'what language do you make love in' thread. ;) Reineke - 'One thing you have to decide is what language you want to study. The rest is optional. Your own abilities may be unclear to you and you may even underestimate yourself. The ultimate goal may dictate the need for a certain level of proficiency. You or someone else may decide to set a certain level of proficiency as your ultimate goal, without determining any particular need for attaining this skill ("school"). You may not care about the proficiency level you will achieve and have no particular goal in mind, but still be crystal clear and motivated about undertaking the task. This may result in pleasant surprises.' No particular goal in mind? Schools have exams and a grading system last time I checked. Not to mention the pressure from parents and teachers to perform. The mantra in the UK is 'good education, good job'. Also, when I was at school the majority of those who had no care for their level of proficiency did poorly. Reineke-'Do I need to decide whether I want or am able to become a professional player even before throwing a few hoops? Language learning is often compared to sport - the similarity exists - learning repetitive skills etc. but overall language learning is a very different ... ball game.' I'm not sure what the relevance of this. Some would argue that basketball is significantly more enjoyable than language learning. Therefore it can be much easier to throw a few hoops than to study; hence, the need for some to approach it in a way that will increase their effectiveness. reineke- 'Individual preparedness, emotions etc. about undertaking what's necessary to reach the goal will vary. One may fail to even attempt the task despite a strong motivation. One may achieve the task even with lukewarm motivation.' Exactly. That is why it may be necessary to direct this motivation effectively with a plan of action or increase this lukewarm motivation to a stronger level (if needed to complete the task). Reineke-'Now, what's a realistic goal? How do you know you're not shortchanging yourself? In my opinion and experience most people will underestimate their abilities. They'll end up thinking they bit off more than they could chew when in fact they were only nibbling. Heh' I Agree. It's not an easy but there are at least some general guidelines. For example, Learning mandarin fluently in 3 months for me isn’t possible. My motivation would die away very quickly when I start to see a lack of progress. Reineke-'What steps? The right method? How do you decide you've been using the wrong materials? Trial and error is inevitable.' Right. And if you see a previous post to Leosmith you will see that I recommend trial and error to find out what is right for you. The steps are relevant to you. A plan, if it is necessary, is designed to keep you motivated, so the steps are what the individual themselves would consider necessary. This is why I say we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Seek advice from those who have trodden the path to help minimize trial and error. We don’t have to try every course to know what works for us. I'm not too keen on the idea of right method. I believe that if your reasons are compelling enough you will devour as much material as possible regardless of method. Reineke-'This may work for some people. Military types. Neat freaks. You know It could also be cruel and unusual punishment for someone else.' My brother recently returned from 6 months stints in Iraq and Afghanistan in the British army. What he witnessed out there is cruelty and punishment. This is just a spread sheet. It took me 20 seconds to update. You decide its outlay. Is this really so bad? I think we need to develop a bit of perspective here. Reineke-'What sort of a reward? If it's language-related, sure. But if the reward is to take a break, that's bad. Baad.' How is taking a break bad? Please can you elaborate? I took a 5 day break during my Spanish studies and found it to be rather beneficial. Also, if you read an earlier post you will see that I recommend rewarding yourself with whatever makes your toes curl. As long as you are conscious of the fact that you are rewarding yourself. reineke- 'And what if your reasons are not so compelling? Very strong motivation constantly churns inside, it pushes or it pulls, it does not need to be described, artificially fed or analyzed.' By this reckoning those of you who haven't been as motivated as you would have liked should accept this level of motivation and not try to improve on it. Therefore, if you find yourself giving up on a task because of a lack of motivation then just try a new task, because quite frankly you can’t do anything about it. I would genuinely appreciate it Reineke if you could explain how, after learning so many ‘artificially’ motivating techniques and previously seriously lacking motivation to do anything except that which was fun, I am now about to embark on 5 year journey around the world, I have taken my language studies to wonderfully new level and I completed a half marathon last year (something I never thought I would do) to name just a few things I have managed to achieve in the last 18 months alone. None of this was possible until learned the value of motivation. By yours and Leosmiths reckoning all of this should not have happened due to its artificial and, consequently, useless quality. Maybe I should take your advice, stop analyzing my motivation and know that I can’t do anything about it. At least then I can go back to partying. Let me clear this point of motivation up to certain degree. I'm not asking you to visualize anything foreign to you and forcing you to feel something which you wouldn't otherwise feel in other settings. What I am suggesting is for a person to sit down and write a solid list of reasons they want to learn the language. This could be whatever motivates you. Anything. The more the merrier. Then write down the things you’re going to miss out on if you do not achieve your goal. Some people may even realize that they in fact aren't that bothered about learning languages and find something else they enjoy doing. At the very least they would a bit more self awareness. reineke-'Yes, but your whole plan is about delayed gratification. They do it for instant gratification. And they have a pressing need, a chemical dependency. Sort of like AJATT.' This point was here to emphasize the power of negative motivators. Nothing more. jimmymac-"Let me be more clear on this: 1) Write down and strongly visualize on a daily basis all the great things you are going to experience once you achieve this goal." reineke-'Do you think the addicts need to do this? Do you think they need to visualise their fix in order to go about their business?' Are you saying that addicts don't regularly image having a fix? And that this imagining doesn't increase their desire to seek the fix? If you are saying that then I strongly suggest you read a few biographies of former drug addicts. I didn't say visualizing = completing the task. I said visualizing increases motivation. Reineke-'There's a very strong suggestion here that you will not experience much pleasure while trying to achieve the set goal.' Where? One motivator for a person may be that they simply enjoy the activity. That is good enough. There are some aspects of Assimil that I like and some that I don't. It isn’t all rosy. reineke-'trying to visualize the reward strikes me as artificial and betrays a lack of "real" motivation.' we have already covered this above. Reineke-'Most likely people will come up with mental pictures of places they want to travel to etc. and after a while this will evaporate. It's also a real mental effort that keeps you away from achieving your goals.' I have been imagining travelling to countries for a year and there’s no sign of evaporation. It’s your mind. You imagine it as often as you want. If it starts to get boring then imagine something else. Incredibly, I don't see how visualizing or daydreaming, however you want call it, is such an effort. I sit back and imagine having a great time with my new found Spanish friends. Difficult? As for detracting from my goals, it does the complete opposite and serves to enhance my motivation to achieve these goals. reineke- 'It's much easier to get a few posters (naked anime chicks or the Eiffel tower, whatever's your fancy).' Good idea. Reineke-'If your thoughts wander away to how great it would be to... that's good. If you have to force yourself to think about it, this is not so good.' Yes that is true. And if you look through my posts I have never suggested 'forcing' oneself to visualize. Reineke-'If there was a real motivation to begin with, it naturally springs to mind that delaying or postponing the act will also postpone the gratification.' Real motivation? Please can you offer me an idea of what 'real motivation' is? Clearly I have been doing something wrong and need to get these impostors out of me. Also, as I have said a number of times the negative motivators are not the principal motivators, rather they serve to help you through if and when times are a bit tough. As I have said, I imagine myself in a positive light but as a back-up I will become aware what I will be missing out on if I do not reach my goal. Reineke-'Ideally the act itself would be a gratification (like with your addicts) and the person would hardly notice sailing across the finish line.' This goes without saying. The key word being 'ideal'. And as we all know often things aren't ideal. As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread this may be relevant for those who find their motivation flailing sometimes. If it’s such a breeze then you wouldn't need to worry about all this. reineke-'Negative motivation may be good for short-term goals. In the long run it destroys morale and creates resentment.' I agree that negative motivation is good for short term goals. The reason I have the spreadsheet is because it represents short-term month-by-month goals and I find it very effective. I'm confused as to how negative motivators damage moral and create resentment. Lack of progress can damage moral. Disappointing yourself because you've fallen far back in your studies due to a lack of motivation can damage moral. If I'm lacking motivation after a hard days works and I say to myself ‘do I really want to end up like the people in my work, rotting in the same chair for 40 years’ I can promise you that my motivation will quickly return. There is no resentment and no damaging of moral. I just thought about something I didn't want to be doing in 40 years time and I'm aware of one things I need to do to achieve it (language learning). Is this so difficult? I mentioned to Leomsith that people are not objects waiting to break. For the majority of us we are not all on the edge of breakdown waiting for a negative motivator to put us in the grave. In fact, time and time again every day we are motivated by negative thoughts. We go to work so that we can pay the bills and live comfortably, but also to prevent being homeless. We try to eat healthily in order to feel good and prevent illness. My suggestion was to simply discover what negatives motivators there exist for language learning and use them when necessary to aid motivation. I think we need to make a distinction here. The two main critics of my posts are established members of this forum and long time language learners. You both clearly have established your styles and what works for you. And by what you have written it sounds like you derive great joy from language learning. I personally derive great joy from the effects of language learning rather than the whole process. Although, of course, there are many aspects I do enjoy. I am both capable and happy to go through exercises I find extremely boring because I have the insight to see that in 12 months I will be delighted that I stuck at it when times were difficult. 3/4 years ago this would not have been possible. You may call this motivation 'artificial' but I call it effective. And I'm much more impressed with results than labels. I hope I have answered some of your questions. I have enjoyed debating them. Unfortunately (although probably not for you lot), I'm going to have to shorten my replies because I have other time commitments. I apologize for constantly using quotes but I haven't worked out how insert comments. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6155 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 29 of 53 26 August 2008 at 7:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Tigresuisse,
This is an outline of my French plan. Forgive the brevity of it but writing the above post was rather time consuming. Also, This is just a simple plan. It is the level of motivation underpinning the plan which is a major factor in deciding its level of success. My goal is to reach a non-technical intermediate level in French by July 2009. Of course I plan to develop my French after this time, however, I'm moving to Thailand next year so I need to re-shuffle things when I get there. The definition of non-technical intermediate that suits me is between the CEF B1-B2 levels (http://www.world-english.org/cef_language.htm). The main sentence 'Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party.' Sums it up for me but only in every day situations rather than areas that I'm unlikely to encounter. For reading proficiency I have decided to pick a relatively simple novel in L'etranger that I rather enjoy. At the end of the 11 months I hope to be able to read this with some degree of ease, although I do expect that I will struggle with some parts of it. I have decided on the below programs to achieve this. As Reineke pointed out this is trial and error. So if I don’t feel I'm going to reach the desired goal with these materials then I'll have to review things at some point. Also, I'm open to suggestions from those of you have already learned French. 1)French with ease, Assimil. 2)Using French, Assimil. 3)FSI french (http://www.freelanguagecourses.com/). 4)French in Action 5)l'etranger (book and audio) Schedule. I'm learning Mandarin on the days French isn't mentioned. Monday: Walk to work takes 30 mins in the morning so I shadow an Assimil lesson (1) Continuously with as much focus as I can manage. walk home from work shadowing different Assimil lesson (2). From 5.30 to 8.30 I do one hour of FSI, Shadow another lesson of Assimil (3) and work on Spanish for half an hour. 8.30 onwards. Chill out, socialise, go for a run. Wednesday: Other commitments so no studying. Thursday: Walk to work take 30 mins in the morning and shadow the same Assimil lesson (1) as Monday walk home from work shadowing same Assimil lesson (2). From 5.30 to 8.30 I do one hour of FSI, Shadow the same lesson of Assimil (3) and work on Spanish for half an hour. 8.30 onwards. Chill out, socialise, go for a run. Saturday: Off work but Manage my day in the same way just at different times. Each morning I fill in my spreadsheet just writing hours spent studying and what hours I have remaining til the end of the month. Takes about 20 seconds. At this rate I thoroughly go through 3 Assimil lessons a week and because they are spread out nicely throughout the week I find that on Saturday I know the lessons either off by heart or at least extremely well. Not including the revision lessons there are about 150 lessons in the two Assimil courses, so that means I should complete the entire thing just before July. Once I have completed it I shall go through them trying to translate the text from English to French as a three week revision session. I have given myself about 180 hours to complete FSI. I'm hoping this will be sufficient. I'm not moving to Thailand until November next year so if anything needs extra time then I can be flexible. Also I will continue my studies while I'm away. In July I shall attempt to read L'entranger. This is an outline of my plan and it is working very effectively so far. I welcome encouragement or hints and tips. I do not wish to receive a barrage of senseless criticism because it works well for me and I would never dream of telling someone that their plans are rubbish. If, however, someone thinks I could add a program or two or that my timescales are unrealistic then I would like to hear from you and any suggestions you can make. I hope this has been in some way beneficial. Edited by Jimmymac on 26 August 2008 at 7:19am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Keith Diglot Moderator JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6779 days ago 526 posts - 536 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 30 of 53 26 August 2008 at 7:33am | IP Logged | ||
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The topic of motivation is very valid. However, debating about it is not. In other words, this is supposed to be a thread about how to motivate yourself, not about whether motivation techniques are necessary or not.
If one feels that it is not necessary or that is should not be necessary to motivate oneself to study, then I ask that that person or those persons to please understand that not everyone is like yourself. There are many self-help type books that have been written. Not everybody needs these books, however, the popularity of them shows that there is a considerable amount of people who do seek such advice. Unfortunately for me, I am not one of the people who has ever benefited from a self-help book. Some of us are beyond help! But I do appreciate the advice that Jimmymac has given us. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 6155 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 31 of 53 26 August 2008 at 7:41am | IP Logged | ||
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Keith,
I'm afraid you have communicated this point far better than I have. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 53 26 August 2008 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | ||
This should be more than adequate to reach your desired level. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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