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Comparing Assimil Russian 1951/1971/2004 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5556 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 25 of 34 10 March 2010 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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Always an interesting question: do language courses get dumbed down over the years? Although always keen to point out the advantages and highlights of modern courses too, this seemed to be very much the contention of Prof. Arguelles, and I guess with his impressive extensive library of editions new and old, I cannot help but respect his opinion. He if anyone should know.
Personally I can't speak for Assimil, but I definitely know that some of the Linguaphone courses they offer now are far inferior in many ways, both in quantity and quality, to what they were producing back in the 70s and 80s. The audio and print quality are naturally much better, but the content just seems to be lacking. For example, I recall ordering a Complete French course a few years back and having to promptly return it after I phoned up and found out it was not a mistake or a bad joke. This was supposed to enable the lucky purchaser to "master French" and bring them up to an "advanced" level. Although the pages were indeed very colourful and glossy, with an assortment of different inane activities to complement all our "learning intelligences" (this along with marketing is something that 21st century language publishers are very good at), the amount of vocabulary, dialogue and coverage of grammar was so thin on the ground and basic compared to its earlier editions that it beggered belief. You need only count the number of pages/words in the glossary, or try to find any account of the subjunctive case, and you're headed for disappointment. The phrase "all gravy and little meat" comes to mind here (apologies to any vegetarians out there). The other thing I noticed is how Linguaphone, in an effort to economise, cut back drastically on their product range (when I enquired, I was told that "Irish had been rationalised" for example), and they now only offer a small handful of the most popular languages compared to before. This is an area where Assimil fairs much better, with a long list to choose from, particularly if you're already fluent in French. I guess modern courses do have their advantages with regards to fun quality audio recordings, colourful text backed up by CDs and online resources, and engaging assortments of language learning activities throughout. However, how much quality content do you really get in the end? That's the real question. I miss much of the humour, continuity, and excerpts from native literature contained in earlier courses, despite the lack or quality of audio back then. The 50s, 60s and 70s were a golden age for progress in language learning theory, and many of these books that replaced the dry grammar-driven tomes of yesteryear were really packed with a "good slice of the language" and a lot of fun stories and cultural background too. Perhaps linguists and publishers have just gone a little too overboard with the latest trends and fads in language learning in recent years. Sometimes the phrase "if it ain't really broken, don't fix it" seems so true. Edited by Teango on 10 March 2010 at 2:48pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 26 of 34 10 March 2010 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||
The third thing is that Linguaphone now only offer their courses from an English base. Back in the 70s and 80s they made their courses available in several languages, including smaller ones like Norwegian. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shadad Pentaglot Newbie VenezuelaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6657 days ago 38 posts - 41 votes 3 sounds Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Spanish*, English, French, Italian, Portuguese Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, German | Message 27 of 34 12 March 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged | ||
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So far I've done the first 4 lessons of the 1970's version. I don't plan on studying Russian seriously (yet) but I'm liking it and I'm VERY surprised at how easy I found these first lessons. I mean, you really learn "sans peine" but I guess it will get harder and harder after the first week. The pronunciation is really not hard at all for me, but the spelling is very irregular. I'd say one needs to take dictation of every lesson at least a few times until you get it all right.
Has anyone here finished this course? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| spanishlearner Groupie France Joined 5454 days ago 51 posts - 81 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 28 of 34 12 March 2010 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | ||
I can't think of a counter-example where a language-learning series has actually become more substantive over the years rather than being continually dumbed down. Even with material like Rosetta Stone, V2 seems to feature significantly more vocabulary than V3. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5556 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 29 of 34 12 March 2010 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've heard that some of the Teach Yourself books have improved a bit in newer editions, or after changing publishing companies, but these exceptions are often rarer than not...you're probably all too right, finding a counter-example is going to be a challenge?
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| spanishlearner Groupie France Joined 5454 days ago 51 posts - 81 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 30 of 34 12 March 2010 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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There is no question that as a whole the Teach Yourself series has plummeted from what they used to offer up to the 70's or 80's and what they have today. They used to be really truly exceptional. Perhaps the odd title had a very poor course to begin with and the new one by comparison seems better? Edited by spanishlearner on 12 March 2010 at 2:45pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Teango Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member United States teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5556 days ago 2210 posts - 3734 votes Speaks: English*, German, Russian Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona | Message 31 of 34 12 March 2010 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's true, some of these older books are really quite impressive. I was recently lent an antique book, every page choc-a-bloc with great parallel German-Russian dialogues, texts and stories. The only thing missing was the audio in this case.
I also have fond memories of the first ever complete language courses I bought as a kid. One in French for 50p at a local jumble sale ("Readers Digest - At Home with French" from the 70s), boasting a fine complement of books and 45 rpm sleeved records, and another colourful one in Spanish on 33 rpm from the 60s with a somewhat now politically incorrect matador on the front. There was a kind of joy and magic in these materials and the stories they offered as far as I recall, partly due in UK in those days to the novel prospect of travelling abroad to inviting distant lands far beyond Butlins holiday camps and Blackpool. Language learning was for many an exotic adventure I guess, and the materials, like good camping gear, were sound and solid and reassuring in quality. I wish I'd kept these now. Edited by Teango on 12 March 2010 at 3:21pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lsilvaj Diglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4130 days ago 34 posts - 42 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Russian | Message 32 of 34 16 December 2015 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Still on the subject, here are partially altered texts (in order to prevent copyright issues) from lesson 36 of both "Le Russe sans Peine" (70s) and the newest Russian with Ease.
Lesson 36 - Le Russe Sans Peine ("a gift") Nikolai P., couldn't you give me some advice? -Advice? About what? -About a gift. This week, Saturday, it's my friend's birthday. -And you want to give him a present, right? -Absolutely right. I would like to present him with a souvenir. What can you suggest? -Does he have a photocamera? -No, as far as I know, he does not have one. Besides, I am not sure about that. -At this moment there are good, not expensive, nationally produced photocameras being sold. - What else? - You could buy him a new radio. -Oh, this is a brilliant idea. I am sure that my friend will be content. Lesson 36 - Russian with Ease ("who is barking?) I., how does a cat mew? -Meow. -How does a cow low? -Moo. -Rooster? - Cock-a-doodle-doo. Smart boy, you know everything. And who growls "grr", the dog? -No, Grandma, when Grandpa doesn't wash the dishes. I guess the differences are self-explanatory. Edited by lsilvaj on 17 December 2015 at 1:11am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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