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Poor Bible Translations | ||
Tags: Hebrew | Translation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes  22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 17 of 24 24 April 2011 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, there are translations in this version that are motivated by the theological position of the Jehovah's Witnesses. For example John 1:1: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. (NWT) You see they very carefully backeted [the] before the word beginning. This is because there is no definite article in front of ἀρχῇ (arche - beginning). Thus they bracketed [the] to show that it is not in the Greek but they supplied it to make the English translation read more smoothly. This is good translation. However, they then turn around and translate "a god." There is no indefinite article in Greek so at the very least they should have bracketed "a" to be consistent with their translation principle of bracketing supplied words that are not in the original Greek. Additionally, there is absolutely no justification to translate θεὸς (Theos - God) as "god" with a small g. It is the same word as the previous occurrence in the verse so why translate the first occurrence as "God" and the second as "a god"? A proper translation of this verse from the Greek is: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (NASB, KJV, NIV, ESV and many other versions) Edited by JW on 24 April 2011 at 2:14pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gorgoll2 Senior Member Brazil veritassword.blogspo Joined 5146 days ago 159 posts - 192 votes Speaks: Portuguese* | Message 18 of 24 25 April 2011 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thank you, JW. But, wouldn´t speaking about more than one god wouldn´t be polytheism?
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| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 19 of 24 25 April 2011 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
From a linguistic standpoint (since this is a language forum) I find that the only way to accurately categorize the Biblical data is via the Doctrine of the Trinity. This is because the data say that God is a plurality but also a singularity. For example, John 1:1 says that the Word was πρὸς τὸν θεόν (pros ton theon) "with God" i.e., distinct from God but also that θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (theos en o logos) "the Word was God" i.e., one and the same with God. Another example is that in John 10:30 Jesus said: ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν (ego kai ho pater hen esmen) I and the Father are one On the surface, this appears to conflict with the Great Shema of the Jews in Deut 6:4: שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה ׀ אחד ׃ (shema yisrael Yahweh eloheinu Yahweh echad) Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one and this apparent contradiction, God being one yet more than one, is why the Jews were outraged at Jesus' statement: 31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” They simply did not understand how the "one" in John 10:30 could be reconciled with the "one" in Deut 6:4. This is because this truth, God as "a singularity that is also a plurality" was a μυστήριον (mysterion - mystery) in the Old Testament--it was there but not understood--until it was fully explained in the New Testament, the clearest statement of which is Matt 28:19: πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, This is how I see the Biblical data on the subject coming together from a linguistic standpoint. Of course others with strong linguistic skills in the Greek and Hebrew would (and have) disagree(d) with me but they seem, at least to me, to be engaging in eisegesis rather than exegesis, i.e., they are letting their theology influence their hermaneutic, rather than simply interpreting from the Hebrew and Greek based on linguistic consideration alone. After all. the very first verse of the Bible starts out representing God linguistically as a "singularity that is also a plurality" via a plural noun with a singular verb: בראשית ברא אלהים bereshit bara elohim In the beginning God created Elohim is a plural noun bara is in the singular Edited by JW on 25 April 2011 at 7:00pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gorgoll2 Senior Member Brazil veritassword.blogspo Joined 5146 days ago 159 posts - 192 votes Speaks: Portuguese* | Message 20 of 24 25 April 2011 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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JW, it was sarcasm about the Jeovah´s Witness´ term "a god". I also believe the Trinity.
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| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 21 of 24 26 April 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Certainly that will be a very interesting monograph. Are you the author? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 22 of 24 26 April 2011 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I will be very interested to read the book, although at "almost 1,200 pages" that will apparently take some time ;) Please keep us posted as to when it is available. Edited by newyorkeric on 27 April 2011 at 3:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6379 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 24 27 April 2011 at 3:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You have your link in your profile. No need to drop it into your posts as well.
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| newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6379 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 24 27 April 2011 at 7:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Well, it was one block of text, and I didn't distinguish between it and the rest of your advertisement. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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