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How many people really teach themselves? | ||
Tags: Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| oldearth Groupie United States Joined 4830 days ago 72 posts - 173 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 25 of 52 22 July 2011 at 9:29am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm still a relative newbie at learning languages, but my most recent attempt at self-teaching Spanish is still
going long after other language learning attempts have failed. It may be too soon to tell, but I think the difference this time was that I sat down and made a plan for HOW I was going to study before I went out and started collecting materials from the library, bookshop, or wherever. In the past, I never put much thought into how/when I was going to incorporate study into my life -- so I didn't. This time I started by researching what other people were doing to learn languages, and that research drove home the point that there are no silver bullets. As a geologist, I know very well that even tiny changes add up over over long periods of time, so it's just a matter of designing a language study system for myself. The Appalachian Mountains were once as tall as the Himalayas, but it took nearly 500 million years for them to erode down to their present stature... one grain at a time. I keep time logs of everything. I've started out with Anki for about 30 minutes a day to learn my first 1000 words (culled mostly from children's library books, but also lists of important words online). I follow that with 30-60 minutes of grammar study and conjugation practice. I try to read Spanish news in my free time. Now that I'm getting comfortable with the basic vocabulary, I plan to reduce my grammar study and start LRing Harry Potter for at least an hour or two per day. And I'm thinking about picking up MT to listen to during my fitness walks -- though I'll probably check out some free podcasts first. Notice, I didn't buy anything until I'd been successfully following my vocabulary and conjugation routine for six weeks. I think most people fail because they aren't looking for a method or a course -- they are looking for a silver bullet. They don't make a strategy for using the course. And, as we all know, failing to plan is planning to fail. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4867 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 26 of 52 22 July 2011 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Self-study is really demanding and only few people have real chance to achieve basic fluency (B2) with self study without attending (considerable number of) classes and without being immersed to the language.
I think these could be prerequisites that there is real chance that a person can learn a foreign language which is considerably different from his native tongue (Very easy "conversions" like for example learning Dutch as German speaker or learning Spanish as Portuguese speaker are excluded.) *Personality profile(MBTI): INTJ, INTP, ENFP or INFJ,(maybe ISTJ). *IQ over 120. *At least one foreign language which is not very similar to mother tongue at C1 level or above without long time immersion. *Very high motivation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jean-luc Senior Member France Joined 4895 days ago 100 posts - 150 votes Speaks: French* Studies: German | Message 27 of 52 22 July 2011 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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*IQ over 120.
IQ is not a measure of intelligence, just an indication of the ability to do certain mental tasks. Motivation and ability to work hard are much more useful parameters to take in account. Edited by jean-luc on 22 July 2011 at 1:30pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4867 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 28 of 52 22 July 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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IQ is good predictor of learning power and 120 is not that high figure. Complete self-study of a language to high level without immersion is my mind intellectual achievement almost equivalent to making a doctoral thesis. It really requires intellectual capacity well above average as well as ability to work hard for a long period of time.
If student has some support from teachers or is immersed learning a language does not require solving every problem alone. IQ requirement is then significantly lower, but it still requires ability to work hard for long time. Ability to work hard in great deal of uncertainty is highly correlated with personality types. INTP, INFJ, INTJ, ENFP and ISTJ are generally able to work extended periods alone when motivated. Complete self study does not suit for everyone. If we think language learners INTJ and INTP are more like researchers while ENFP and INFJ work with passion and have great natural communication skills. ISTJs are ultimate grinders, but generally language tasks are more easily solved with intuition that with ultimate grind. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jean-luc Senior Member France Joined 4895 days ago 100 posts - 150 votes Speaks: French* Studies: German | Message 29 of 52 22 July 2011 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Except that making a doctoral thesis does not require an above average intelligence. And I'm not aware of any place, at least in Europe, that check for your IQ before allowing you a research grant.
Although using IQ for special uses, as detecting children with special mental abilities or disabilities, is good, it's completely useless this precise case. Anyone without mental problem can learn any language. They just need time, motivation and resources. Of course some people are faster than other, but I bet that's not something you can quantify with numbers as precise as "120". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4867 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 30 of 52 22 July 2011 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I respectfully disagree. I have let myself to know that making doctoral thesis is almost impossible under IQ 110 and highly unlikely under 120. Median IQ of doctoral researchers making doctoral thesis is probably between 125-130, high above an average which in western Europe is 103.
There is usually a background check of academic achievement which is testing more or less same abilities as IQ tests.
Really IQ numbers are not exact and the 120 could possibly be any number between 115 and 120 as well, but really IQ figures give some indication of potential and 120 is not that high figure. Edited by petteri on 22 July 2011 at 5:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LebensForm Senior Member Austria Joined 4985 days ago 212 posts - 264 votes Studies: German | Message 31 of 52 22 July 2011 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I am just going to be a bit blunt here, the discussion of IQ is irrelevant here. IQ has little if any influence on if someone can learn a language. Like others say, determination and hardworrk, dedication is really what you need. My IQ has been measured, and yes I am considered "gifted" but I think my personality type(being an ISTJ) has even more influence on my ability to learn a language. I am a very highly determined person when I want to be. I am rather effecient and whatnot, not because I have a high IQ, but because I go for what I want, to become fluent in German, and I spend my time dedicated to learning German, when I am not working of course, (being German, may contribute to my hardworking and effecient personality lol).
Anyway, I actually had to scroll up to see what this topic was orginally about. But yes, I think some people really do teach themselves, but it's the ones who have the determination and that ultimate desire to do so. Not everyone can stay motivated, their eye on the prize so to speak. Some people get destracted very easily, while others can focus for long periods of time. It just boils down to how serious you really are at learning a language. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| oldearth Groupie United States Joined 4830 days ago 72 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 32 of 52 22 July 2011 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I am reminded of all the exceptional autistic folks I knew during my time at MIT. While it clearly inhibits
communication, those Asperger guys sure did know how to study and memorize! I think a simple classification like IQ is too blunt when there are "handicapped" people in the world with exceptional talents. I would not be at all surprised to learn that one of the guys I knew had memorized the English-XX dictionary to the point of reading knowledge. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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