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How many people really teach themselves? | ||
Tags: Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4867 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 33 of 52 22 July 2011 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
With greatest respect we have really great test laboratory in countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands. Over here IQ as well as academic achievement correlate extremely strongly with secondary language skills. And a lot of people over here have skill of English from B2-C2. At least in Finland everything below B2 is practically considered as "no working skills of English language". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 52 22 July 2011 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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The discussion has moved away from the original question, which was "How many people really teach themselves?".
So instead of continuing the discussion about IQ I'll just state that I learnt my first Italian and Spanish from text books, but apart from that I had classes in school so in other languages I was at least partly 'teacher taught'. At the university I become more and more selfteaching, but still with teachers around me. So the first period where I'm entirely selftaught is the present one (since 2006), and the funny thing is that I now generally avouid text books (or at least I treat them very cursorily and without any regard for their structure and intent). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LearningFrench Newbie United States Joined 4857 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 35 of 52 22 July 2011 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | ||
I disagree with the textbook avoidance. My French textbook (which comes with online audio which can be downloaded) has worked wonders for me. It dishes out basic vocabulary and grammar that are (usually) essential. Also, because it assumes your going to be tested over the material, it has some pretty difficult assignments that you should go over, with a teacher. However, that's just me, and French (I'm sure) is an exception because it is so strongly related to English (but your first language is not English right?) :P 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4957 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 36 of 52 23 July 2011 at 1:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I would imagine that there are not many people who manage to teach themselves a language to the c1 level, despite starting out with good intentions.
Outside of this forum, where would one find information on how to do so? Learning a language is a massive task. Ive been studying Spanish for about 8 months, and for the last 6 months Ive worked hard, everyday. Despite being obsessed with my goal, im still miles off even being able to hold a regular conversation. Its this site that gives me the confidence to go on, and assures me that my goal is possible. Its through this site that I have discovered fsi , and Assimil, and worked out how to form a language plan. Im sure that lots of people, who have never heard of this site, might believe ( as I so naively did) that all they have to do is listen to a few hours of Michel Thomas, or several hours of pimsleur, and then they will be fluent. The fact is, its just not that easy, and without a place such as this which provides a community of support and advice, I cant imagine that there are many who manage to effectively invest the 100s , or even 1000s of hours that such a task demands. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4884 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 37 of 52 23 July 2011 at 3:46am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm a case where my language collection gathered dust, but after 7 years took it back out and now they are fullfilling their purpose.
First it was German (All the Way series), and Hugo's Portuguese. I have used them both and completed the courses. I am a structure kind of learner, so I like to learn the grammar and basic vocabulary really well, and then periodically review it so I improve my writing. When I have enough grammar and vocab I just start writing, reading (where I look for the grammar I learned to reinforce it as a I read with examples), and speaking in the language, hardcore. My eventual goal is to not have to look back at the grammar books in order to speak correctly, but just to correct any colloquial induced bad manners. In the next month it will be my French books that see the light again. I have an Italian set too, but that one will have to wait as I want to get French down, all while still putting some time on my German and Portuguese. And I am learning Chinese too (but at a leisurely pace). I think you can teach yourself but at least with me, it has to be an intensive course. An hour every other day simply doesn't do it for me, I get bored after three months of that and only being able to say ''how are you today?'' ... After three months I expect to hold a basic conversation, at least in writing. That's why I think when learning a language you should give it your all until you can reach B1 or B2 level. From that point on, you can read and listen without much effort and simply coast to a higher level. That's what I will do with my German and Portuguese now. Edited by outcast on 23 July 2011 at 3:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| woodenshoes Diglot Groupie Chile marcialearnsdutch.wo Joined 4824 days ago 53 posts - 58 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: Dutch | Message 38 of 52 23 July 2011 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure you are correct in that statement, except for people who don't
have attics or basements, whereupon their stuff is collecting dust elsewhere. ;-) [/QUOTE] : ) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| HMS Senior Member England Joined 5042 days ago 143 posts - 256 votes Speaks: English* | Message 39 of 52 23 July 2011 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it would be great if language course providers expanded to more niche markets in order for people to self-teach in the context of something they find interesting. Maybe:
German for stamp collectors, Icelandic for train spotters, Yoruba for football hooligans. I propose a "learn a language through the medium of pornography" course in several languages. Polyglottery here I come!!! 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6638 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 40 of 52 24 July 2011 at 1:27am | IP Logged | ||
Well, I wouldn't buy HMS's courseware (I suppose it was a joke). But I do want to study materials about my interests, so I make my own bilingual texts: either I find something that already has a translation and combine them in Word or Libra/Openoffice or whatever, or I find a target language text about something relevant and make a machine translation. I have written about the different techniques in my Guide to Learning languages here at HTLAL so I won't go into details, but I find it much more relevant to learn for instance Greek from a text about mythology than from a standard text book about "Hallo, my name is Giorgos and I live in a town". And scientice texts are generally easy to understand because of the technical terms that function as beacons. Grammar in textbooks is generally treated in pathetically scattered titbits so I get a much better overview from any grammar - well, even the grammar sections of language guides are better. Finally the few times I have tried to listen to the audio parts of language courses I have been bored beyond belief ... they ... speak.... so.... s..l..o..w.l..y, and the content is absolutely rubbish. So I I stick with my writtten sources until I can start listening to some real things, albeit with a clear and crisp pronunciations. News broadcasts and podcasts about science are among the easiest sources in this respect. Edited by Iversen on 24 July 2011 at 1:32am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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