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Language level after univ. degree | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Immersion, Schools & Certificates |  | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5385 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 1 of 18 30 July 2012 at 2:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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In general, what level of competency does a 4 year college degree in a language accomplish? Are there speaking/listening requirements for people to graduate?
I understand this varies quite a bit from language to language and school to school. I also understand there is more than just speaking/listening in terms of studying a language in college. One of the reasons I am asking is that some people I speak to with degrees in Spanish do not really seem to be able to speak or understand Spanish at a high level (A2 or B1). On the other hand, when I was at the bookstore today I took a look through a study guide for AP Spanish and it seemed quite challenging. It seems to me that if a college is going to give a degree in a foreign language to a student the student should be at least at a C1 level in the language. Is this unreasonable? Are there any sort of standards? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sillygoose1 Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4646 days ago 566 posts - 814 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: German, Latin | Message 2 of 18 30 July 2012 at 3:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think with online conversing and practice, you can get to B2 with a degree. If you do all of that and study abroad, I'd say C1.
I only say this because I know uni classes do become worth it past the 201/Intermediate course. That's when classes start getting conducted in the language full time, you are only allowed to answer in said language, composition, conversation, literature classes, etc. Well, at my school anyway. The level they say they get you to is equivalent to a B2 on the CEFR. Edited by sillygoose1 on 30 July 2012 at 3:05am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tanya b Senior Member United States Joined 4788 days ago 159 posts - 518 votes Speaks: Russian | Message 3 of 18 30 July 2012 at 3:47am | IP Logged | |||||
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I know that Russian language graduate students at a major US public university, after spending a semester in Russia, were asked to watch a Russian TV news program and try to understand its content, and every single one of them received a "dvoika", essentially a failing grade.
Must be frustrating for both student and teacher. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5236 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 4 of 18 06 August 2012 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
OK, let's see if the site is really back and holding in place. If the database is rolled back and this post is lost I won't cry, I promise ;)
Side note: if there are 6 skill levels defined and labelled from A1 to C2, I wouldn't call anything below B2 (the lower half of the scale) 'high'. From the Spanish and American graduates I've talked to (even those with a degree in translation/interpretation), current standards seem to be pretty low, i.e. those I've met who I, as a theoretically qualified lang. teacher, would place above B1 reached such a level out of their personal commitment, and not because they were required to get there.
It seems to me both pretty reasonable and pretty unrealistic. I wish too that holding a degree still meant something, but that's not how uni degrees work any more. WRT to your finding something challenging please keep in mind that the lesser your language skills are, the more challenging anything can look. Check it with someone who really 'can Spanish' ;) Edited by mrwarper on 06 August 2012 at 7:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jappy58 Bilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member United States Joined 4648 days ago 200 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Guarani*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi), Arabic (Written), French, English, Persian, Quechua, Portuguese Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 5 of 18 06 August 2012 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It seems to vary depending on the language, the university, and what the language is for. Some degree programs - such as International Relations or International Business - require knowledge of a language, for example.
In general, however, it seems to me that B2 is the highest that a degree promises, and for the most part, I've met students, who after four years of majoring solely in a language, would not be placed past a B1 level. There is no doubt, however, that a degree alone doesn't mean much, especially when it comes to proficiency. A student's dedication is the best indicator. I've met dozens of students majoring in Spanish in the past ten years, and out of the 25 I am very familiar with, I would only put 5-8 of them at a C1 or C2 level. These students were the ones who dedicated themselves to Spanish outside of class in addition to their classes. The others, unfortunately, struggle to describe everyday topics, can barely produce their thoughts, can only understand the simplest news broadcasts, and in all, would certainly not be past a B1 level. A few, however, are on their way to B2. These students were the ones who would do all their work in class, but use it minimally - or not at all - outside of class. Why would they use it so little if it was their major? I don't know, but that has been the case for the majority of Spanish students. Language levels are somewhat vague, however. I've witnessed similar cases for Arabic and French as well. I've met some students of UT Austin's Arabic Flagship program, and after four years, their performance was actually solid - but again, these are students who were willing to take advantage of all the resources that that particular program offered. The students of Arabic that were in the normal Arabic programs or from other universities at similar "normal" programs, however, were in the same situation as the Spanish students. In the end, it doesn't matter whether the language is considered "easy" (such as Spanish or French), or as "hard" (Arabic). Classes alone and doing what is only "required" is probably not going to get you anywhere. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gregy1727 Triglot Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6545 days ago 98 posts - 117 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Afrikaans | Message 6 of 18 06 August 2012 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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From my own experience as as Spanish major in university, I reached C1. I wouldn't confidently say I reached that
level due to my university classes, but rather, due to the fact that I studied abroad during my junior year after I was already quite good at the language. During that time, I lived in Mexico for four months while taking intensive classes six hours a day five days a week. In addition to this, I was doing a homestay, so I spoke only Spanish for almost the entire time I was in Mexico. I credit my abilities more to this. The one positive thing is that being a Spanish major ALLOWED me to study abroad for that amount of time and receive academic credit. Also: At my school, AP Spanish only covered 1000-2000 level courses. We still had to take 11 other 3000-5000 level courses to graduate with a Spanish degree. It's as the others said. Good students with a passion for the language who want to learn it will do well in Spanish courses at university and will come out with a high level. The students who think they can go to a few 75 minute classes a week and absorb Spanish by osmosis are the ones who will not, yet they far outnumber those who take the major seriously. A majority of my friends were Spanish majors who all loved the language and studied it outside of class. We all spoke Spanish with each other, very rarely did we speak English. We would go out to Mexican restaurants and speak only Spanish, watch only Spanish movies together, etc. In addition, most of us studied abroad. As a result, we learned Spanish well. Those who did not put the required amount of effort into it, did not. Classes are only a tool. They will not lead you to some holy grail of fluency. You get out what you put into it, just as in autodidactic study. From my experience both as an autodidact and as a classroom language student, I'd say the biggest problem with classroom learning is that it lulls you into a sense of complacency. There's a danger of believing that all one needs to do is follow the class curriculum. This is (usually) not seen in autodidactic study because the person undertaking such a study is already aware of how much work needs to go into it. Edited by Gregy1727 on 06 August 2012 at 10:43pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5229 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 7 of 18 06 August 2012 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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IMHO a good university course and a diligent student who puts the effort in gets the student to about a C1 level. More talented/harder working students might get to C2?
Of course many students here in the UK study a language in which they have already reached a reasonable level of around B2 but many university courses are aimed at students who haven't studied the target language before and still get the student to a C1~ish level. As far as I know nearly all 4-year language courses involve an academic year overseas and a project. As a side note the DSL (UK equivalent of FSI) aims to get students to C1 in 18 months with no prior knowledge of the language - but they do select students with some care! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4838 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 8 of 18 06 August 2012 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
If DSL is these people: www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Trainingand Exercises/DSL then it would appear that we have no plans to invade China... Edited by montmorency on 06 August 2012 at 10:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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