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Language level after univ. degree | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Immersion, Schools & Certificates |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5463 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 9 of 18 06 August 2012 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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It depends on the country, the university, the language etc. When I studied English at a Norwegian university
one of the first thing we did was reading Shakespeare.When I studied Latin we started from scratch, and five months later our actve skills were still practically zero. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5229 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 10 of 18 06 August 2012 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | ||
They are. Once upon a time there was 'Chinese' course. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| freakyaye Senior Member Australia Joined 4848 days ago 107 posts - 152 votes | Message 11 of 18 07 August 2012 at 4:42am | IP Logged | ||
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My (Australian) university has begun publishing an equivalency map for their course units and the cefr:
http://artsonline.monash.edu.au/language-framework/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rasta87 Diglot Newbie Colombia Joined 5521 days ago 13 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Persian, French | Message 12 of 18 17 August 2012 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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My experience at an Australian university was that the Diploma in Spanish that I took
for two years before going on exchange was practically useless. Students who were serious about learning the language would study using various sources and actively looking for opportunities to practice, while the rest treated it like any other uni course where the objective was to pass. My course was particularly badly done. It consisted of one 2 hour lecture and two tutorials, once a week. A lot of English was spoken and we were given a lot of grammar exercises. Concurrently I was studying with audio courses like Michel Thomas, Learning Spanish Like Crazy and the FSI Programmatic, along with regularly watching Spanish TV (gracias simpsonizados.com!). The main advantage of the course was that it gave me a structured progression for learning vocabulary and revision of grammar I'd already covered on my own. The only students who might have been better than me were the few who already spoke italian as a first language. My grades for the course for the 4 semesters I studies were always above 97% and yet when I arrived to Colombia I felt like I basically knew nothing for the first few months. I think the problem with having a degree in a language is that it means practically nothing. The person is just as likely to be at an A2 level as he is a C2. For this reason I decided not to bother finishing the diploma and instead take the C2 DELE. I think if universities were serious about training students they would need to use interantionall recognised testing. I think they don't because it would deter too many (paying) students. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4838 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 13 of 18 17 August 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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@rasta87:
To be fair, I think Columbia would be a bit of a culture shock to most people coming from a "western" style society, and especially if they had only learned "peninsula" Spanish. There is also the thorny wider issue of what university education is really for. At one time in Britain, it was usually said that it was about equipping you to think for yourself, and the one thing that they didn't do for you (in contrast to school), was to spoon-feed you. There is perhaps no area that is better suited to "thinking for yourself" than language study, as many on HTLAL have found for themselves, and as you discovered, once you cotton on to this, you can actually do without university at all. Sadly now all too often, the universities have become a sort of self-fulfilling, self- perpetuating money-hoovering-up machine, especially in this age (in the UK) of ever higher fees, no grants, and student loans). You are well off out of it mate. Edited by montmorency on 17 August 2012 at 10:31pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5401 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 14 of 18 18 August 2012 at 3:20am | IP Logged | ||
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Students can graduate with a language degree with a wide range of levels, especially if
a stay abroad isn't a mandatory part of the degree program. Even amoung those who go abroad you'll find a wide range of levels when they get back. It's just really not possible to become really fluent in a language if you don't practice and get exposure to how it's really used. Classes can teach what you need to know the language but they can't do the practice for you (if there is a language program that successfully integrates exposure and practice I'd be really interested in hearing about it). Any good professor/language department will encourage students to immerse themselves outside of class time but language degree programs tend not to be very rigorous and so students aren't really compelled to. This is unlike a music degree where students understand that if they don't practice A LOT they're not going to cut it in their degree program or in their music career. Music degrees tend to be quite rigorous and selective and so students know what they have to do to succeed and they do it (or drop out or fail if they don't). So students in a language program have to decide if they want their degree to make them the language equivalent of a professional musician and if they do then they need to look to music students and students in other rigorous disciplines as a model of how someone uses their time in university to truly perfect a craft rather than just working for a GPA and a piece of paper that claims they know something about some subject. Maybe language programs fail their students by not setting higher standards but in that absence students need to set their own standards. If it's easy to get straight A's with hardly any rigorous study then students need to reflect on why they're studying that subject and what they want that degree to do for them and do the work necessary to bring that about even if it's above and beyond what's required in their classes. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4942 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 15 of 18 18 August 2012 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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The level of language skills heavily depends on the language and the university. Let's take two examples. In order to pass an entry exam to major in English philology (English language and culture) at the University of Helsinki students have to have either solid C1 or C2 command of English language. Therefore after 4-6 years of study almost every graduate has either near-native or high C2 skills.
On the other hand students applying for example to major on Arabic language and culture often do not have any prior experience on Arabic. That in addition to the toughness of the language and dialects implies that few students can reach C1 or C2. In that kind of study case typical level of language skills after graduation could be B1-B2. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rasta87 Diglot Newbie Colombia Joined 5521 days ago 13 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Persian, French | Message 16 of 18 18 August 2012 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's a great analogy sctroyenne.
I should clarify that when I say useless I mean it only in the sense that, like a music degree, the fact of studying the degree and passing courses means nothing without dedicated practice every day, and that also like a music degree the student will inevitably be judged on his 'live performance' of the skill rather than what his piece of paper says. I think useless was the wrong word. I was glad to study Spanish at university because it meant more input and one less class I had to study for when I could be studying Spanish. I can't really blame my disappointment about my abilities upon arriving to Colombia on my university studies. Rather my point was (I think) that if I could study so much in addition to the requirements of the course and be at the top of the class, and yet still struggle so much, what chance do those who study only what is necessary for the course have. Again, the music analogy is perfect. It really has to be a passion that occupies your mind every day. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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