Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

What does "basic fluency" really mean?

  Tags: Fluency | Reading | Grammar
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
106 messages over 14 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 12 ... 13 14 Next >>
lady_skywalker
Triglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
aspiringpolyglotblog
Joined 6889 days ago

909 posts - 942 votes 
Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin
Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian

 
 Message 89 of 106
02 October 2006 at 5:19pm | IP Logged 
patuco wrote:
Charlie wrote:
However, there are some people in this forum who want to say "let's do away with standards entirely." Go ahead, think that way! Your lax standards will make it much easier for me to find a job, because while you're sitting on your laurels saying "I'm fluent," I'll be the one who gets the job because I showed concrete evidence.

This assumes that we are studying languages in order to obtain employment. A great deal of us have no real need to learn any language but we do so anyway for various other reasons.


Quite a pointless statement on my behalf but...I have a BA degree in Chinese Studies and yet my Mandarin is terrible! So not even formal qualifications can perfectly determine your language level (the HSK exams for Mandarin proficiency would certainly be a more reliable guide).

Besides, as Patuco points out, we don't all learn languages for employment benefits. I'm learning Japanese for the sheer fun of it and wouldn't even consider putting it on my CV as I'm not seeking a Japanese-language job anyway. These days there seems to be too much focus on learning something only if it's profitable with regards to work and money rather than for cultural and personal interest. I guess I'm just idealistic...
1 person has voted this message useful



alexptrans
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Israel
Joined 6764 days ago

208 posts - 236 votes 
Speaks: English, Modern Hebrew, Russian*, French, Arabic (Written)
Studies: Icelandic

 
 Message 90 of 106
02 October 2006 at 5:24pm | IP Logged 
patuco wrote:
Charlie wrote:
However, there are some people in this forum who want to say "let's do away with standards entirely." Go ahead, think that way! Your lax standards will make it much easier for me to find a job, because while you're sitting on your laurels saying "I'm fluent," I'll be the one who gets the job because I showed concrete evidence.

This assumes that we are studying languages in order to obtain employment. A great deal of us have no real need to learn any language but we do so anyway for various other reasons.


That's very true. I enjoy learning languages so much. Several years ago, I started thinking that it would be nice to make some money out of my hobby and became a translator. And even in this language-oriented field, I was never asked for credentials.
1 person has voted this message useful



Captlemuel
Groupie
United States
Joined 6721 days ago

58 posts - 60 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Mandarin

 
 Message 91 of 106
02 October 2006 at 5:31pm | IP Logged 
The quote in Hencke's post was not written by me. It was, as you probably all know, written by Charlie. Read it thus: 'Charlie wrote:' not 'Captlemuel wrote:'.

Edited by Captlemuel on 02 October 2006 at 5:43pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Captlemuel
Groupie
United States
Joined 6721 days ago

58 posts - 60 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Mandarin

 
 Message 92 of 106
02 October 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged 
I just read your 'edit', Hencke. I haven't tried to figure out how to do certain things yet.

Edited by Captlemuel on 02 October 2006 at 6:24pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Captlemuel
Groupie
United States
Joined 6721 days ago

58 posts - 60 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Mandarin

 
 Message 93 of 106
02 October 2006 at 6:18pm | IP Logged 
Charlie, the question that I asked you was a rhetorical one. I think you should consider seriously what the other members have said in response to reading your posts. They are making a great deal of sense. And besides, it is only through consideration of what other people think that one can arrive at a right understanding of his relationship with them.

Hear this echo: many people study and use their second languages only for pleasure.    

Edited by Captlemuel on 03 October 2006 at 1:03am

1 person has voted this message useful



SamD
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6658 days ago

823 posts - 987 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, French
Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian

 
 Message 94 of 106
03 October 2006 at 7:54am | IP Logged 
Captlemuel wrote:
   
Hear this echo: many people study and use their second languages only for pleasure.    


I agree with Captlemuel wholeheartedly on this. My job doesn't really require any second language ability, and I'm not looking for a language-oriented job at the moment. Taking a standard test that would measure my language ability would require a considerable amount of travel. I don't begrudge other people the option of taking such tests.
1 person has voted this message useful



Andy E
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 7102 days ago

1651 posts - 1939 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, French

 
 Message 95 of 106
04 October 2006 at 2:02am | IP Logged 
On a related note, I have worked on a large number of occasions with foreign co-workers who had excellent qualifications in English - they could read and write it to an extremely high standard.

However, their speaking and aural comprehension skills were, quite frankly, terrible and in order for projects to function correctly *all* communication with them had to be in writing.

Andy.

1 person has voted this message useful



SamD
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6658 days ago

823 posts - 987 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, French
Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian

 
 Message 96 of 106
04 October 2006 at 7:40am | IP Logged 
Interestingly enough, I used to teach English as a second language in a university program. We worked with students whose scores on the TOEFL were too low for them to be admitted to other classes. They tended to have much higher scores on the listening and speaking component of the TOEFL than on grammar or reading and writing. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world.


1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 106 messages over 14 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3906 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.