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TAC ’14: Sokoły / Соколи (Pol./Ukr. Team) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5351 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 89 of 151 28 January 2014 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Дуже дякую! I'm very grateful!
I'd noticed before but wasn't sure if it was really true until I saw Rahdonit's corrections that Ukrainian always uses the personal pronouns with verbs in the same way as English. It's very interesting, because Czech, Polish and Slovak don't, apart from for emphasis. It was a very worthwhile practice because I learned that and a few other smaller things. Edited by hribecek on 28 January 2014 at 2:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7158 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 90 of 151 28 January 2014 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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That seems to be an Eastern Slavonic thing with the frequency in using personal pronouns even when their use seems redundant with a background in Western or Southern Slavonic languages.
I'll put down my sentences shortly. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Duan Newbie Canada Joined 4798 days ago 36 posts - 48 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish, French | Message 91 of 151 28 January 2014 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
Dziękuję bardzo, prz_! Looks like I really have to work on my inflections... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4861 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 92 of 151 28 January 2014 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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C'mon, don't worry! I also have to work on many many things in English and it's still my "best" foreign language, what about the rest!
And I'm always eager to help you guys, so... :) Fingers crossed! 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4690 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 93 of 151 28 January 2014 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Are you suggesting that Belarusian and/or Rusyn have this feature, as well? Because Russian seems to be in agreement with the Western and Southern practice of dropping pronouns whenever possible. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7158 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 94 of 151 28 January 2014 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes. Compared to Western and Southern Slavonic languages, Belorussian and Rusyn are marked by greater use of personal pronouns even in unemphasized sentences (their use would seem redundant to a Serb or Pole for example). However out of these languages, Rusyn exhibits the weakest tendency to use personal pronouns in this way (probably caused by the Rusyn speakers forming enclaves among Poles and Slovaks). My understanding and exposure to Russian (lately gleaned by checking out Ukrainian forums where commentators sometimes use Russian) suggests similarly. However I've noticed that in colloquial Ukrainian, at least, the personal pronouns are more likely to be dropped when the corresponding verb's ending has the suffix that marks person (basically present tense). I speculate that the tendency to use personal pronouns in neutral sentences in present tense may come from their typically obligatory use when conjugating for the conditional or past tense. In contrast, the Western and Southern Slavonic languages still use auxillary verbs marked for person or personal suffixes with the l-participle which usually makes the use of personal pronouns redundant excepting the need to be explicit about the performer of the action. See here for a comment to a foreigner's question why я is used in present tense even though it seems redundant (presumably excepting the need for emphasis). Edited by Chung on 28 January 2014 at 6:22pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rahdonit Bilingual Tetraglot Groupie Ukraine Joined 6616 days ago 50 posts - 87 votes Speaks: Russian*, Ukrainian*, English, German | Message 95 of 151 29 January 2014 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
I guess, I should have provided my corrections with some explanations as to this point. While it is true that Ukrainian (and Russian) tend to use the personal pronouns with verbs, often it is quite normal to omit them. In fact your sentences can be used also without the personal pronouns with no difference in the meaning: Я англієць, але (я) живу в Чеській Республіці. (Я) люблю (вивчати) мови. У мене є дружина, її звуть Гелена. Моя жінка -чешка. (Я) маю собаку, котрого звуть Макс. Я вчитель, моя дружина також учителька. (Ми) працюємо в школі. Still in sentences out of context I would advise to use verbs with the personal pronouns. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rahdonit Bilingual Tetraglot Groupie Ukraine Joined 6616 days ago 50 posts - 87 votes Speaks: Russian*, Ukrainian*, English, German | Message 96 of 151 29 January 2014 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Very good examples that are also true for Ukrainian. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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