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Team Катюша - TAC 2014 - TEAM THREAD | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4717 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 217 of 464 03 April 2014 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Cristina is right. It's quite the opposite, I would say. We, foreigners, usually learn how to read and write in Russian MUCH earlier than even trying to speak it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4846 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 218 of 464 03 April 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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APRIL CHALLENGE
Thanks to everyone who completed the March challenge! This month's medals of honour go to: YnEoS milesaway chokofingrz Josquin Solfrid Cristina For the April challenge, I'd like to follow Cristina's suggestions. Please choose between the following two tasks: 1) Which Russian city would you like to go to and why? Give your explanation in Russian! 2) Describe your best friend in Russian! Beginners should try to write at least five sentences. Advanced learners, however, should go into detail and write as much as they can. Have fun with this month's challenge! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| milesaway Triglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4333 days ago 134 posts - 181 votes Speaks: French, English*, Russian Studies: Finnish, Sign Language | Message 219 of 464 03 April 2014 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I like both of those topics, can I write about both of them?
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 220 of 464 03 April 2014 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
So what? Does it mean that we can call a spelling rule a rule which is not a spelling rule? And learners of Russian need good understanding of what is what in Russian. Understanding of how Russians feel their language, how it works. In Spanish there is a spelling rule: e is spelt before s+another consonant at the beginning of words. Do You agree with it? I don't. The correct explanation is: native Spanish speakers cannot pronounce a word which starts at st or sp, they add an "e" at the beginning, which is reflected in spelling. Princeton Russian course says that the spelling rules about velars are fake. They simply reflect pronunciation. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4717 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 221 of 464 03 April 2014 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
They can be fake and based on pronunciation, that's fine. But do they work? Will you write correctly if you learn them? If so, I can't see why it's a problem. They're just ways to help us learn faster, like learning a Math equation instead of having to do a derivative every time. I can say for myself that they worked. Foreigners can't and 99,9% of the time won't learn a target language like natives did... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 222 of 464 03 April 2014 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
But does a learner understand well that ши and жи are pronounced like шы and жы, while ки, ги and хи are pronounced like ки, ги and хи. And in general, does a learner understand how to pronounce everything? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4846 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 223 of 464 03 April 2014 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@milesaway: Sure, if you feel like doing both, you can do so!
@Марк: Nitpicking about the word "spelling rule" doesn't help anybody. In fact, this may be a grammatical rule or even a phonological one, but it won't help anybody learn Russian better if we change the name of it. In textbooks and grammars, all the rules concerning velars and sibilants are commonly comprised under the name "spelling rules". It's necessary for learners to know these rules in order to inflect and write Russian words properly. While native speakers can simply rely on what they hear, learners need some help. These rules work, so there's no use in fundamentally questioning them. EDIT: If the learner reads a good introduction to pronunciation and listens carefully, s/he will learn how to pronounce Russian correctly, but you can't demand perfection right from the beginning. Edited by Josquin on 03 April 2014 at 11:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5058 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 224 of 464 04 April 2014 at 12:11am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't demand anything. But don't you think that such "spelling rules" confuse learners? Before listening it's important to understand the pronunciation rules. A learner should know that туш and тушь are pronounced in the same way, while стал and сталь differ. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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