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"Finishing" a language | ||
Tags: Advanced Level | Time to learn | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 41 of 44 03 March 2014 at 2:16pm | IP Logged |
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Guided instruction can be done with a course through self-study. I think when they put out those number of
hours, they are measuring intensive study. Extensive work with the language is also necessary. Some of it may come in the form of a classroom, but typically there are reading or listening or watching assignments, rather than a teacher who starts a video and falls asleep in the back of the room. On "Finishing" a language. That was generally meant as completing the course(s) of instruction necessary where one finds themselves "self sufficient" and can continue with native materials without significant gaps in ability. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 42 of 44 03 March 2014 at 3:49pm | IP Logged |
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On the topic of number of hours to attain a certain level, for the FSI numbers, they are for dedicated, and
have some talent, possibly above average, for language learning. They also don't include homework, which increases the hours of study by about 50%. On top of that, the dedicated student probably includes various self-study interests; books, audio, and video appropriate to their current level. For the CEFR numbers, it appears even more hours of study outside of the "guided instruction" may be expected, particularly at the higher levels. Also, the intensify of study particularly at FSI but perhaps also in a CEFR class may be higher than what an individual does on his own while driving a car to work or exercising or any activity where the "study" is secondary to one's primary purpose. The final thing about guided instruction is that one expects the instructor - which could be yourself if you are good at this sort of executive function - pushes the student appropriately. E.G., not spending too much time on material already learned, or using native materials that are completely over one's head. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| JC_Identity Triglot Groupie Sweden thelawofidentity.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4122 days ago 53 posts - 108 votes Speaks: Swedish, Serbo-Croatian*, English | Message 43 of 44 13 March 2014 at 7:34pm | IP Logged |
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I think this topic is one of the most important to bring to discussion. My conviction is that thinking about finishing a language can lead to a lot of
frustrations, because it implies a focus on the language itself and oftentimes that hardly definable end-goal of being fluent. As if there is some set number of words and grammar points out there that once you reach, you can be labelled a fluent speaker. You are in fact shooting for something you cannot hit. A focus of this kind leads the majority of times to the process not being enjoyable. For me at least, it should not be about finishing a language or even learning/studying a language for that matter but rather using/living the language. The frame of mind "I am using French" implies something different from the frame of mind "I am studying French". If you say that you are using French that to me implies that you have some purpose for which you are using the language as a tool, to accomplish. And if you keep on approaching your target language with the frame of mind "I am using French for x,y, or z" (even if you are beginner, which is possible today for majority of popular languages) you will never ask yourself when have I reached that undefinable target of fluency. This way you ensure that you know the WHY of everything you learn and you never learn for its own sake. You learn that which helps you express yourself. So who cares what it means to be fluent or finish a language if you can use your target language for your interests and enjoy doing so. And if you USE rather then STUDY the language, you will enjoy the process. I can also add that I have actually removed French from my list of languages that I study in the profile. The reason, which I wrote more about in my log, is essentially this issue that it has me put my focus on the wrong thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4950 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 44 of 44 13 March 2014 at 10:30pm | IP Logged |
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I find it a bit hard to "finish" a language, although admittedly I have never before been in the situation of finishing one! I may expand on my feelings in a separate thread, maybe or maybe not, but in short over the last month or so, for the first time, I feel that I am FLUENT in French and German. I hate saying this because it sounds like a boast, but I just feel like that. Never before in the last three years of study did I ever think that.
I still stumble occasionally, there is still many expression I can learn, but all in all, I speak rather effortlessly, the words come out, in the right order, with the right grammar 90% of the time, and I can switch rather swiftly from one to the other. Now EVERYONE I meet who is native French or German speaker tells me "you are fluent". The tutors I meet with tell me I am by far the most fluent speaker of all their students. And I feel at ease, for the first time, living in those languages 100% of the time. All those things must mean something. But I am still studying very actively. Tons of input (hours of listening, hours of reading), and now hours of talking. The reason is that I love intellectual conversation, and that requires a rather high level of vocabulary and expression. To talk over the Crimea/Ukraine situation in French and German, the historical background, etc. To discuss the Malaysian flight 370, the possibilities, the mechanics of powered flight, terrorism, etc. Thus I forge ahead. I know that can be dangerous, because I had promised myself to devote almost all my time to Mandarin. But because I have now added Portuguese to the languages I actively practice output, I have kept on with the other two at the detriment of Mandarin. Eventually I will re-plunge full into the latter, but I do admit I am running the risk of delaying too long. But thinking about it is not so much stopping that is difficult for me, it is the thought of losing what I have gained by neglecting the other languages when I study Mandarin nearly all the time. I will still do stuff in the other languages and still have plenty of chances to use them in the real world, but I guess I would love to know how many minutes/hours I require to MAINTAIN whatever level I reach when I set my current target languages aside. That I don't know, only have very vague ideas. Right now I'm just waiting till my Portuguese catches up to the level of the other two languages, which I would say is "threshold advanced fluency". I think because of my mother languages (Spanish being one), and because I have studied Portuguese grammar and vocabulary in detail before, it should only take 3-4 months. Edited by outcast on 13 March 2014 at 10:32pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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