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Pimsleur vs. Rocket | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| i am groot Newbie United States Joined 3498 days ago 4 posts - 9 votes Studies: Italian | Message 1 of 12 12 May 2015 at 1:41am | IP Logged |
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Hi. This is my first post. I'm a native English speaker that just started studying Italian, and I am using Pimsleur, the $19.23 5 CD Basic course. I am about to finish the 5th and final CD and need to decide if I should continue with the Pimsleur system. I realize the set I purchased is simply the first 5 CD's of the regular Level I course, so I'm trying to decide if I should keep going and purchase the full Level I set. I REALLY like the first 5 CD's, however, I find some things about Pimsleur frustrating, mainly that there is no written material at all. I understand they believe that this is a "feature" of their system, but I do not like that part of it. I end up looking up stuff on my own, which I realize may not be a bad thing, but it seems weird to me that I should have to do that.
Recently, I ran across Rocket Languages. From what I can tell looking at the demo, it has everything I like about Pimsleur, plus all the things I wish Pimsleur had. It is my understanding that the Pimsleur system is well regarded, but I have read nothing whatsoever about the Rocket Languages system. It seems like just what I'm looking for, but before I spend the money, I would like to receive some un-biased opinions regarding the quality of the Rocket system. Is there any consensus of opinion on whether one is significantly better than the other? I would like to know what you all think. Thanks! By the way, I have A LOT more questions about learning Italian. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| bryanpeabody Groupie United States Joined 4986 days ago 48 posts - 79 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 12 12 May 2015 at 3:31pm | IP Logged |
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Here is my 2 cents...
Personally, I like Pimsleur only for working on pronunciation. I wouldn't base my core learning around it. Like you said, it's lacking written material that goes along with what you are learning. I bought Rocket Spanish years ago. I tried it for a while and never finished it. It just didn't "stick" when I did the lessons. You might have a different experience though. Just starting a new language (especially your first one), I'd start with Michel Thomas. You will get a pdf (http://www.michelthomas.com/downloads.php) and can follow along with what you are hearing. The Michel Thomas courses will teach you how to use verbs in the language, along with grammar. I credit his courses for giving me a solid base. Then, after Michel Thomas, fill in the gaps with something like Teach Yourself, Assimil or graded readers. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5263 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 3 of 12 12 May 2015 at 4:07pm | IP Logged |
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As bryanpeabody says, pimsleur is good for pronunciation and helping to build automaticity in speech. If you already have it, use it in that way. In conjunction with a more thorough course, such as Assimil or another, it can help to provide synergy and compliment the more thorough course.
Pimsleur works in a different way than book/cd courses. Despite the course hype, using Pimsleur as a supplement/adjunct to another more thorough course is the most common use here. Some people like to do courses sequentially. My preferred method is to use Pimsleur concurrently along with another, more thorough, course- i.e.: one in the morning, the other after work; or, Pimsleur during the commute or other times when reading is not an option. If you can get all three volumes for free from the library (using an inter-library loan if not available at your local library), this would be ideal. If not, I don't believe the cost would justify it's use. I used it along with a DLI course and native materials/speakers for Haitian Creole and Portuguese. Michael Thomas has been used successfully by many learners on HTLAL to give a good introduction to how a language works. Me, I absolutely cannot stand the formula with the annoying students and non-native speakers. I just can't get past it and have never used it as a result. If this doesn't bother you, go for it, as I have said, many learners swear by it. I just swear at it :). We all have different methods. It is up to you to find what works best for you. Edited by iguanamon on 12 May 2015 at 4:09pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4053 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 4 of 12 12 May 2015 at 9:59pm | IP Logged |
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Welcome
First, I would like to welcome you to the forum! Next, to help others help you, I suggest that you could provide a little information. The questions below are not at all exhaustive; however, they might spark a wider discussion of your goals and help others recommend the best means of achieving them. Goals What are goals in learning Italian? For example, do you want to exchange only basic transactional information while visiting Italy, using common vocabulary and phrases for ordering a taxi, renting a car, getting directions, booking a hotel room, and ordering in a restaurant, etcetera? Or, alternatively, do you wish to converse at a higher level requiring the ability to understand and discuss concrete and abstract topics, using a fairly high level of vocabulary and sentence construction to speak more-or-less spontaneously with native speakers? Are you interested in delving deeply into the Italian culture and do you want to understand the latest trends in colloquial use of the language? Experiences and Preferences What prior experiences of foreign language learning have you had? For example, one year of high school Spanish or five years living autonomously in Bolivia? Do you prefer classroom instruction, computer-aided self-instruction, conventional textbook with audio recordings for self-instruction, or essentially audio-only self-instruction with methods such as Pimsleur and Michel Thomas? Do you respond well to the 1960’s-style massive repetition of sentence pattern drills? Have you worked with a tutor or have you experienced a true full-immersion situation? Have you studied a language method that is based on situational dialogues and, if so, what was your specific approach to using these materials? What part does the study of grammar play in your studies? How did you react to your previous experiences and what did you learn about your own preferences for language-learning? Study Plan Do you have a study plan? Could you describe it? How many hours per day can you realistically devote to studying Italian? Is this a three-month programme prior to a trip to Italy or a life-long commitment to a new cultural experience? Your Specific Request Why did you choose to compare and contrast Pimsleur and Rocket Languages? WHY do they represent interesting alternatives for you? Will you be using them to complement one another? Do you intend purchasing the full programs and sticking with them to the very end? Are you open to using other materials or study methods? My Experiences With Pimsleur To be brief, I have a love-hate relationship with the Pimsleur method. As you have already discovered, the audio-only lessons are highly-structured, self-contained, study units that are not subject to easy modification. The student is supposed to deduce the structure of the language through the programmed repetition of the material. Reviewing the massive amount of audio, most of which is dedicated to practicing and memorizing a fairly small set of basic vocabulary, is not at all obvious. The lack of supporting written material can be frustrating; however, the recently-introduced “Pimsleur Unlimited” version addresses the problem, to a certain extent. Ultimately, I would continue to recommend Pimsleur, IF and ONLY IF you respond well to the method and assuming you find that it is cost-effective for YOU. My Experiences With Rocket German A couple of years ago, I tried Rocket German, but did not complete the programme. For me, it was just one more bad example of the application of high-end computer technology to a non-technological problem. Literally millions of people have learned to speak several languages and they have done so without the aid of poorly-designed, inflexible, expensive, tied-to-your-technological-platform, buggy, computer software programmes. Furthermore, I find the so-called “testimonials” and “customer reviews” that pollute the Internet highly suspect and I seriously doubt that anyone has truly achieved the language skills that they claim to have achieved using these types of language-learning systems. Grump, grump, grump! Did I mention that I don’t respond well to these programmes? Never mind, perhaps you will enjoy the experience. My Opinions Don’t Account For Much I suggest that you forget my ranting about Pimsleur and Rocket Languages and focus on exploring your goals, experiences, study plan, etcetera. Edited by Speakeasy on 12 May 2015 at 10:11pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| i am groot Newbie United States Joined 3498 days ago 4 posts - 9 votes Studies: Italian | Message 5 of 12 12 May 2015 at 11:56pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the warm welcome! I am traveling to Italy in August. My wife told me to learn Italian. This is because when she was there a few years ago, she was treated rudely in some places because she spoke no Italian.
I was born in San Diego, CA and therefore was exposed to a lot of Spanish. I was fortunate to have had an excellent Spanish teacher in both the 7th and 8th grades. Then in high school, I took two years of German. If I learned any German in High School, I lost ALL of it, as that was almost 50 years ago. Then, as an adult, in anticipation of driving down to Chile, I took Spanish again in community college. I was able to get by traveling around in South America, but that was 30 years ago, and again, I have lost it. In 1996 I needed to travel to Russia, so I studied Russian on my own from various cassette tape courses, and again, was able to get by, but this time only barely. And again, I have forgotten almost all of the Russian I knew. I never really liked studying Spanish and I hated studying German. I kind of liked studying Russian, but didn't have anywhere near enough time to really learn it and no longer have any use for it at all (except surprising the occasional Russian delivery driver who comes in the shop out here in the boonies!). I feel like I've always had an ear for language, that is, I can usually tell from the accent what the country of origin of foreigners is, and I can tell when I'm speaking with an American accent and when I'm close to speaking without accent, but based on my classroom experience, I always believed I "have no natural talent to learn a language." But Italian! I am REALLY enjoying learning Italian. I can speak it, I can understand it, and I really like the Pimsleur system, especially the narration. I like the native speakers and I like the English moderator. I have read that Pimsleur gives a false sense of accomplishment to those using it, and perhaps that is what I'm experiencing, but somehow I believe by the end of 30-60 lessons, I will have the ability to get by traveling in Italy. By the way, I AM of course studying grammar apart from Pimsleur. The Internet is full of it. The thing I have NOT done, so far at least, is study vocabulary. I feel like my brain is a little too full right now to try an cram more stuff in there. As far as cost, I do not have the funds to purchase the Pimsleur products new (except for the first set, which was only $19.23 on Amazon), but they are affordable used. That is the way I would go. One of the things I have been doing is to load a Pimsleur lesson into Audacity. Then from there I can separate out the words and phrases that I am having trouble with. From there I can make Anki flash cards - BUT - I don't know much about Anki, and am frustrated by its SRS approach. One of the questions I need to ask is how to modify Anki to allow unlimited flash card viewing. However, mostly I just listen to the Pimsleur lesson over and over and over, in the car when commuting, and also off and on all day at work (I work alone in a repair shop), looking up what I need to look up, then eventually moving on to the next lesson. I am now on Lesson 9 of 10 total. The reason I was so interested in Rocket Languages is I feel I really need to SEE the word, see with my eyes how it is spelled. I can recall the words much easier that way. I can literally see them in my mind's eye. To do this with Pimsleur is A LOT of work! and I feel like the time I spend messing around with Audacity I could be using more profitably. Rocket looked like EXACTLY what I needed. I don't mind having to use the computer. You and I are different in this regard because to me, a computer is the perfect tool for this kind of thing. To me, a combination of audio AND video seems well suited to learning a language, almost like a perfect marriage. However, I did not like the Rocket narration anywhere near as much as I like the Pimsleur. Anyway, that's my story. Thanks again for your comments and advice! Your help is very much appreciated. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4053 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 6 of 12 13 May 2015 at 2:23am | IP Logged |
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Hello Groot!
My goodness, what a fabulous self-introduction! I have sent you a "Private Message" concerning Pimsleur Italian. You'll need to log on and go to your "Mail" to read it. Since you have barely three months to learn some basic Italian, in theory, you could just get through three phases of Pimsleur Italian. However, while you might enjoy the learning experience, and even assuming that you will have reviewed the material several times, there will be important gaps in your vocabulary. Despite what Pimsleur maintains, vocabulary is important! So, you might wish to supplement your Pimsleur studies with some "tourist-speak" courses. I don't think that there is much benefit to be derived from working with Michel Thomas Italian. I recommend the following sources: DLI Italian Headstart If you consult the FSI Languages website under the Italian section, you'll find the DLI Italian Headstart course. This course was developed by the Defence Language Institute as a very basic "orientation" course for members of the U.S. Armed Forces and family members. It is, essentially, a "self-study tourist-speak" course that presents short dialogues in predictable situations. There are about seven hours of audio recordings. While you won't become bilingual, you will learn some stock vocabulary. About the only "military" vocabulary introduced in the course pertains to military ranks, which you can ignore and replace by "signore, signora, signorina". FSI Italian Programmed I mention this course because it is listed with the other Italian courses on the FSI Languages website. This self-study course uses the "programmed learning" approach. While it is pretty good for developing pronunciation, you really have to like the teaching method. Frankly, I wouldn't spend any time on it, particularly as the vocabulary is not very useful. FSI Italian FAST I mention this course because it is listed with the other Italian courses on the FSI Languages website. As this course was designed for classroom instruction (up to 9 hours per day, 5 days per week, for 6 months) you might find the notes a little sparse. You probably don't have enough time to delve into this material before your trip to Italy. However, upon your return home, you can give it a spin. While it is a "basic" course, it is quite thorough! Routledge Collquial Italian Here's a link: Routledge Colloquial Italian. The Routledge "Colloquial" courses are, for the most part, "tourist-speak" courses. The books and CDs are, bizarrely, sold separately. So, if you purchase this method, be sure that you order both the book and the CDs. There is just enough material in these courses to help a traveller in typical situations: restaurants, hotels, taxis, etc. Linguaphone PDQ Italian Here's the link: Linguaphone PDQ Italian. Like the Routledge Colloquial series, the Linguaphone PDQ (pretty darned quick) series are "tourist-speak" courses. There is just enough material in these courses to help a traveller in typical situations: restaurants, hotels, taxis, etc. Assimil Italian Although you might not have time before your trip to Italy, upon your return, you might take a look at the Assimil Italian. The Assimil courses are often based on 100 very short dialogues with accompanying explanatory notes. The cadence of speech is rather slow, almost too slow and the notes can be a little quirky. However, these courses provide quite a bit of practice material. Think Italian Magazine As this montly magazine is for students at the Intermediate Level, you most definitely do not have the time for it just yet. However, assuming that you were to complete either the ASSIMIL Italian course, or the FSI FAST Italian course, you should consider a years' subscription to this online magazine. The issues are about 25 pages in length and contain about 60 minutes of audio. Here's the LINK: Think Language. Enjoy your trip! Edited by Speakeasy on 13 May 2015 at 2:31am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| i am groot Newbie United States Joined 3498 days ago 4 posts - 9 votes Studies: Italian | Message 7 of 12 13 May 2015 at 10:08pm | IP Logged |
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I have decided skip the Rocket Languages course and continue with Pimsleur. I found a good deal on the complete Pimsleur Italian course, used. I will keep going with that and also supplement it with as much free Internet stuff as I can, especially including the FSI material, which I am amazed with. I feel confidant I have everything I need to succeed in learning Italian. The thing is, I don't want to just be able to get by as a tourist, I want to be fluent. That's my ultimate goal.
The problem is, my wife promised me that she would learn German if I learned Italian, and so far, she hasn't done much. I'm WAY ahead of her. Oh well, I'm having so much fun learning Italian, I'm kind of already looking forward to learning German next year! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 8 of 12 13 May 2015 at 11:08pm | IP Logged |
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If you only have 3 months, then I suggest you really need to purchase a phrase book. They are good because they have a pronunciation guide in them, and they will contain 500-750 of the most common words. So memorise the stock phrases in whichever book you purchase. You can load the whole book into anki over a couple of days. Anki is not designed for you to constantly review the same material, it is scientifically designed to force you to review the stuff you keep forgetting. So just load the words into Anki and let it take you down the path in the way it wants to go. Easier than trying to fight the system. You can increase the amount of new words per day, but it will quickly build up!
If you don't want to buy a paper phrasebook and re-enter everything into Anki, you can copy&paste from the free Wikibook phrase book for Italian. This will get you a good head start, along with the work you are doing with Pimsleur and the other audio stuff. When you go to Italy, if you believe you are going to continue learning, then I recommend that you get your hands on as many used books & DVD's as possible, it will help you later to have native material to learn with. If you want to listen to some Italian podcasts (you'll probably not understand them at first, but it will help you get a feel for the pronunciation) then you might like to listen to Digitalia or some of the podcasts on RAI TV & Radio. On YouTube there is a number of really good channels teaching Italian. I highly recommend Learn Italian with Lucrezia or Alberto ItalianOAUTOMATICO. I have to say it is unfortunate your wife met someone rude, I don't think I have ever met a rude Italian anytime I went there, although I have exasperated a huge number of them while trying to use some hacked up Italian on them. :) 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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