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Which program to begin Japanese? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Siege Newbie United States Joined 3575 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese | Message 1 of 5 12 June 2015 at 10:45am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello all. I've recently begun my Japanese learning journey and would like to know which
program is best to begin. I've memorized both hiragana and katakana already, and will be learning the kanji from "Remember the Kanji" along with a lesson a day from whichever program I choose. So far, I've narrowed it down to Pimsleur (all 3 levels), Assimil Japanese With Ease (1 and 2), and Genki (I and II). I know Genki is a lot more comprehensive than the other two, but I also worry about how difficult it will be to get through as a self-study resource. I also heard about FSI from a friend, who also told me it's extremely boring. So I'd like to know, in your opinion, what is the best program, or even program combination for a complete beginner (who knows the kana), assuming money isn't an issue? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3543 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 2 of 5 12 June 2015 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | ||
While it's true that you will eventually need to know hiragana, katakana, and at minimum around 2200 kanji to become fluent in Japanese, it does not follow that you need to start with these when learning. Using a book that uses a logical romanization system gives you several advantages: 1. You can read sentence and immediately see which words you know and which words you don't. 2. You can pronounce every syllable of the sentence just by reading it. 3. The speed of your reading the sentence outloud will only be limited by your current proficiency of the language, i.e. your reading speed will not be limited by your unfamiliarity with the writing system. 4. You can pick out any word of the sentence and look it up in an electronic reference (almost all electronic references support romaji input). 5. You can produce your own version of the sentence in Japanese writing simply by typing it into a computer input system (all of today's OS support Japanese input methods that can convert romaji to Japanese writing with minimum training). I started with Teach Yourself Japanese, which had no kana nor kanji. I personally didn't find it useful to "memorize" kana, and I do not think it is likely that memorizing kana will really give you the proficiency you need to use it effectively for learning. Even after you memorize all the kana symbols, your speed in decoding a real sentence will most likely still be too slow for using it as an effective teaching aid. If you're struggling with the writing system AND with basic comprehension and grammar, then it's like trying to learn boxing while both hands are tied behind your back. By the way, the next step after reading texts in romaji is NOT reading texts in "kana". There are very few texts which are written in straight kana as it looks quite unsightly. The dominant written form for teaching students who know few or little kanji is to use furigana. THAT is your next step after romaji. Edited by chaotic_thought on 12 June 2015 at 2:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| stifa Triglot Senior Member Norway lang-8.com/448715 Joined 4874 days ago 629 posts - 813 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, EnglishC2, German Studies: Japanese, Spanish | Message 3 of 5 12 June 2015 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Unlike chaotic_thought, I recommend you carry on with Genki, because, since you know
the kana, you can already read the texts in it, since most of them come with furigana; the only texts with no or limited furigana were in the reading section. You won't find many texts written in romaji outside textbooks, but if you get comfortable with reading with furigana, you can move on to manga (those targeted at a younger audience have furigana). Using romaji after you've become comfortable with kanji is not particularly useful. Also, after you're done with RTK, you'll find that recognising kanjis become really easy. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4666 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 4 of 5 14 June 2015 at 12:12am | IP Logged | ||
I completely agree with this. As you've already learned the kana, the more reinforcement you get, the better they will stick. At least you won't have to mentally flip betwene N slightly different variants of romaji found in N different textbooks! Edited by dampingwire on 14 June 2015 at 12:12am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4666 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 5 14 June 2015 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||
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To answer your original query: Pimsleur will get you speaking but it won't get you very
far into the language and it won't teach you how it works. It does it's very best to hide grammar. Michel Thomas is another audio course but it emphasises grammar but doesn't cover anywhere near as much vocabulary. I found both in the local library and used both: they helped fill the commute until I found more resources. I think I did work through one of the FSI courses. I don't remember much about it but I don't remember being too bored. It's free so you may as well give it a go. If it works for you, then great and if not, there are plenty of other resources out there. As for "comprehensive", from what I've read genki will get you about as far as Japanese for Busy People 2 and maybe some way into 3. I'd class that as good "upper beginner" or "lower intermediate" stage. That's about the same as the Minna no Nihongo beginner series. I've never tried either Genki or Assimil so I can't comment on either. There's probably not a huge difference in the information in any of these three textbook courses but they probably differ radically in presentation. Perhaps you could look them over in a bookshop and see which you prefer? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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