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L-R

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29 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4 
watupboy101
Diglot
Groupie
United States
Joined 4838 days ago
65 posts - 81 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French

 
 Message 25 of 29
08 August 2011 at 7:18am | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:
watupboy101 wrote:
Volte wrote:
As a default, read L1 while paying as much attention to
the L2 recording as you can; reading a paragraph of L1 while the narrator pauses for breath before reciting it is a
fairly good technique, if the style of the narrator and your reading speed allow for it.


So Volte your saying I should read a paragraph (in L1 of course), listen to that paragraph (in L2), pause and
repeat?


Absolutely not. Both pausing and repeating are a bad idea for the main phase of L-R.

The most important thing is to maximize the density of the comprehensible input you receive: that is, listen to as
much audio as you can, in as little time as you can (ie, intensively - several hours a day, without skipping days).
Where does the comprehensible part come in? You'll be listening to a story you've read in advance and have the
text of in front of you.

Read what you can, when you can. If the narrator doesn't pause enough to let you read paragraphs, try to read
sentences. If he doesn't pause enough even for that, I'm not sure what to advise - maybe find a different
audiobook, or increase your reading speed, or try to do what you can (and post about what that is, and how it
goes). To the extent you can, maximize the amount of time when you're listening to something that you have
just read.
But I find if I read ahead I can't focus on the narrator speaking the last few sentences... I think reading
along is better but I find I like to read the sentence really quick and then read it again while the narrator is
reading it (focusing more on the speech because I already have an idea of what he is going to say) but this is very
hard because the narrator doesn't pause very much between sentences and maybe a little longer between
paragraphs. What should I do? Read along? or Try to read ahead and listen to the audio from the previous
sentences while reading a new sentence? or Read a sentence between breaths and the listen to that sentence and
repeat? I am just very confused and would like some help...
1 person has voted this message useful



Wompi
Triglot
Groupie
Germany
Joined 4891 days ago
56 posts - 64 votes 
Speaks: German*, Spanish, English
Studies: Czech

 
 Message 26 of 29
08 August 2011 at 9:14am | IP Logged 
Well I haven´t done that much L-R yet (only occasionally an hour per day). But I found out for me it's better to read a sentence or short paragraph when the narrator makes a break to get the meaning of the sentence / paragraph and then read along with the narrator to associate the words in the two languages. It is hard if you have an audiobook which is spoken very fast, but for this reason I think is the first step in L-R: Read the book first in your own language. When you L-R the book then you already know what happens next. Maybe you should first read not the whole book but a chapter without audio, before you start L-Ring this chapter, so you just have to overfly the sentences to get the meaning.

But I don't know if this is the right method or if I could keep this for 6-7 hours a day. At least not without breaks after every half an hour. :)

When I read ahead while the narrator speaks I cannot focus on the spoken words. (I am not capable of multitasking :) )

EDIT: Minor changes




Edited by Wompi on 08 August 2011 at 9:16am
2 persons have voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6374 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 27 of 29
16 August 2011 at 6:08pm | IP Logged 
watupboy101 wrote:
I have another question about L-R. When I'm doing this I seem to remember the story in English, if you know what I
mean. Should I be remembering it in French?


This seems to be a normal stage of language learning, no matter how one goes about it. At first, I'd be rather surprised if you were remembering it in anything other than English. If you continue L-Ring intensively, more will pop up in French.

watupboy101 wrote:

And also, when I'm reading I don't seem to hear the verbs very well I
mostly hear a lot of nouns... the verbs seem to be slurred a bit (this might have to do with the literary tenses). Will
all of this get better with time as I keep working on this method?


Yes. Some people theorize about an order of acquisition (again, in general - this isn't specific to L-R); I haven't looked into that much. Anecdotally, I recognize nouns before verbs too, but the verbs filter in after a while too.

watupboy101 wrote:

I'll try to do as many hours a day as I can but right
now I'm doing about 1.5 hours a day... I feel I am making good progress though, and I plan to go over the book a
few times and I'll see if that helps also another time through the book should I use the French as my text instead of
the English?


I'll paraphrase atamagaii and say "do whatever seems most fun at that point".

1 person has voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6374 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 28 of 29
16 August 2011 at 6:16pm | IP Logged 
watupboy101 wrote:
Volte wrote:
watupboy101 wrote:
Volte wrote:
As a default, read L1 while paying as much attention to
the L2 recording as you can; reading a paragraph of L1 while the narrator pauses for breath before reciting it is a
fairly good technique, if the style of the narrator and your reading speed allow for it.


So Volte your saying I should read a paragraph (in L1 of course), listen to that paragraph (in L2), pause and
repeat?


Absolutely not. Both pausing and repeating are a bad idea for the main phase of L-R.

The most important thing is to maximize the density of the comprehensible input you receive: that is, listen to as
much audio as you can, in as little time as you can (ie, intensively - several hours a day, without skipping days).
Where does the comprehensible part come in? You'll be listening to a story you've read in advance and have the
text of in front of you.

Read what you can, when you can. If the narrator doesn't pause enough to let you read paragraphs, try to read
sentences. If he doesn't pause enough even for that, I'm not sure what to advise - maybe find a different
audiobook, or increase your reading speed, or try to do what you can (and post about what that is, and how it
goes). To the extent you can, maximize the amount of time when you're listening to something that you have
just read.


But I find if I read ahead I can't focus on the narrator speaking the last few sentences...


I find that depends on how far I'm reading ahead. Don't read ahead far enough that this becomes a problem.

watupboy101 wrote:

I think reading
along is better but I find I like to read the sentence really quick and then read it again while the narrator is
reading it (focusing more on the speech because I already have an idea of what he is going to say) but this is very
hard because the narrator doesn't pause very much between sentences and maybe a little longer between
paragraphs. What should I do? Read along? or Try to read ahead and listen to the audio from the previous
sentences while reading a new sentence? or Read a sentence between breaths and the listen to that sentence and
repeat? I am just very confused and would like some help...


I also like the "read a sentence really quick, and then read it again while the narrator is reading it" approach (and one reason I like bilingual texts so much is that that they allow me to do the quick read in L1 and the slow read in L2, while the meaning is still fresh in my head). How easy this is to do depends on reading speed, familiarity with the target language, the narrator, and even to some extent the physical layout of the texts you're using.

I find trying to listen to audio while reading text which doesn't correspond to it (in either L1 or L2) to be counterproductive.

You're doing what's necessary - that is, experimenting. While you're asking for help, it seems you've largely had the same observations as I have. With the basic structure in place (basically, what was outlined in atamagaii's original post on L-R), this kind of detail seems to be best established by experimenting and seeing what works, what seems counterproductive, and what seems fun, and running with that.

1 person has voted this message useful



xtam1
Diglot
Newbie
Poland
Joined 4790 days ago
7 posts - 9 votes
Speaks: Polish*, English

 
 Message 29 of 29
16 August 2011 at 8:18pm | IP Logged 
has anybody tried to replace his reader voice inside head, which is normally used for
reading like the one you are hearing now if you concentrate on internals of your mind,
and switch it with Language you want to learn and listening ?

To force to repeat everything you are hearing, as exact as possible ?



1 person has voted this message useful



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