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Conversation group advice? | ||
Tags: Study Group | Conversation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5116 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes  Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 9 of 33 15 August 2011 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Why not? Pretty much any sort of group gathering that gains any sort of success has at least a loose plan or agenda, whether it's a book club, a computer club, cultural event meeting, whatever. That's the nature of gatherings. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5367 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 10 of 33 15 August 2011 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't mind a "loose agenda" or even a very organized one, but attendance is still frail as the group is barely taking off. There needs to be a fall back plan for anyone who hasn't prepared anything. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5367 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 11 of 33 15 August 2011 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My suggestion so far:
Meeting begins with some free talk (allowing late comers to arrive). Newcomers' introductions are made (in language of choice?). English half begins. Groups are split: prepared members make requests for help according to their respective projects. Unprepared members form a group for free talk. If numbers warrant it, 2 groups are formed based on levels. Japanese half begins. Groups are reorganized as prepared members make requests for help and unprepared members form groups according to their levels. This, however, does little to address a scenario where 5 unprepared members are, say, 1 beginner and 1 advanced Japanese learners and 1 beginner, 1 intermediate and 1 advanced English learners. Must this small group be scinded further? Last meeting, no one had prepared anything. Edited by Arekkusu on 15 August 2011 at 6:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5193 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 33 19 August 2011 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I go to a few different groups, here are my experiences as an intermediate-level learner...
One is more organised and charges a small fee: a tutor leads the conversation, makes sure everyone gets to participate, and splits the group up by ability if there are enough people. It usually works quite well, there's a good variety of different things to talk about and it's helpful to have a tutor correct your mistakes. However, if there are too many students per tutor, it all falls apart: too much variation in abilities, not enough opportunity for everyone to talk, and it often gets stuck in a specific conversation that only interests a few people who start to dominate it. Another is just a gathering at a bar, with no real sort of organisation. The people who come usually tend to be at least intermediate level, and there's always a few native speakers who enjoy being able to relax and speak their own language. It's usually good, and if the group is large it naturally splits up so size isn't a problem; sometimes you end up in the "wrong" group (boring conversation or with beginners or with native/advanced speakers who don't want to give you the time of day) but you can just get up and join another. Next, there's a film night which happens once in a while. People watch a French film (with English subtitles) and then stay around afterwards to drink and chat. Seems to work pretty well, and it's very laid back; maybe the film helps people get into the "French mood"? The final is an English/French exchange I attend occasionally, which is a great idea in theory but in practice it's a disaster in most cases. It's supposed to be an hour in English then an hour in French, but there's no organisation of any sort so it tends to turn out to be 90% in English and any switches to French are very short-lived, especially since the majority of people are usually English speakers and any French speakers there are very keen to practice their English. Even in the rare cases where there are a lot of French people, as soon as they discover you're a native English speaker, good luck trying to get any French out of them when they talk to you so the best you can hope for is some listening practice when they speak to each other. They're generally quite unwilling to help learners. From that, my ideas and observations for what makes a good group: - An all-target-language group tends to run itself fairly well and doesn't require much structure, and is great for intermediate to advanced learners but not appropriate for beginners. - Anything involving beginners requires structure or at least someone to lead the conversation. - An exchange only works if it is well organised. Exchanges are the most difficult to pull off because they depend on the members being serious about learning and willing to help, and the group to be an even mix between speakers of both languages. - Structured and organised meetups work very well if and only if the group is small and everyone is of a similar ability. My "ideal meetup" would probably be a cross between the first two: a small group, mix of native speakers and learners, but with a bit of structure to keep the conversation constant, changing, and interesting. My main wish though is that they happened more often though. Once every week or two just isn't enough. Edited by garyb on 19 August 2011 at 1:06pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5367 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 13 of 33 19 August 2011 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for sharing your experience, garyb.
We were lucky enough that our group had a bunch of people both willing to help, and wanting to speak their L2, so there were equal opportunities for everyone. However, you've helped me realize that there probably needs to be a more organized approach for beginners. In our case, this mostly applies to the anglophones. We could encourage them to bring their own material and questions. I also plan to bring some conversation topics for the non-beginners. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5003 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 14 of 33 19 August 2011 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I am sorry but I hate groups.
You will learn other students mistakes and more participants less time you have to talk. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5367 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 15 of 33 19 August 2011 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
If you mean to say that groups are less efficient than one-on-one meetings, I generally agree. However, I did notice that -- at least for a non-beginner -- it allows exposure to things that don't come up one-on-one, such as conversation between native speakers, and conversation topics you have less control over. It does spice things up a bit, especially if you already have a partner. It perhaps also ensures that native speakers' speech remains natural. As for being exposed to others' mistakes, it's at least better than a class because the ratio of student to native is much better. You can also ask to receive corrections. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5003 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 16 of 33 19 August 2011 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What I meant is more big is a group more bad it is.
One on one is the smallest group possible - 2 participants and I prefer to work alone. No problems to read alone or to listen to native speaking in radio, movies, tv series, podcasts and so on. I see few advantages to have your writings corrected by a group more than by one person - in both cases you do not need to stay side by side with your correcter. If you want to test your speaking skill you do not need a students group for that. Either test yourselve in situation or self test yourselve. Record yourselve speaking in your target language - then listen to it. Do you understand what you said ? Does it sound natural or does it sound like a new language you just invented that you are the only one able to understand ? If you need help you can ask one or more natives - but they do not need to be in the same place at the same time - there is not need for a group. Edited by Michel1020 on 19 August 2011 at 5:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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