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Conversation group advice? | ||
Tags: Study Group | Conversation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4952 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 17 of 33 19 August 2011 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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sorry error editing some corrections Edited by Michel1020 on 19 August 2011 at 5:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5065 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 18 of 33 19 August 2011 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
Totally disagree with this. We tend to gloss over our own imperfections. Getting a native speaker or speakers to check your speech and conversational abilities is much more productive, particularly in the beginning. Groups have their merits, as long as you're about the same speaking level as the rest of the group. Differing opinions, differing views - they can prove useful for keeping a discussion moving. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 19 of 33 19 August 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
I too disagree with you, actually. First, there is no point in asking a group to correct your writing, I agree; this kind of group is intended for oral practice. Second, you seem to be saying that no interaction with native speakers is necessary, that you can just listen to recordings and you'll get better, that you already know all you need to correct yourself. The fact that you can understand yourself is absolutely no indication that you are speaking correctly -- or even that a native speaker would understand you. Reading alone or watching TV is no indication that you truly understand, and much less that you could efficiently talk about it. And finally, learning how to speak efficiently goes far beyond the scope of a few self-administered tests. It's a very elusive endeavour to try to feel how native speakers would express something naturally, and getting it right is a lengthy process of trial and error. A process that requires extensive interaction with natives. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4952 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 20 of 33 19 August 2011 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree interaction with people is the final test.
But for learning I am a lot better using recordings than participating in learning groups. If I do not understand somebody in a group I may ask him to repeat slowly one time - two time if he is patient. With recordings I listen as many times as I need - up to the moment my mp3 or my brain need new fuel. If I am tired I stop and come back later. Also the conversations in a group are limited in number of speakers and subjects- There are no limites to the number of people and subjects I listen to in my recordings. Of course I get a lot of recordings because I am learning Spanish - but if you are learning a language that provides less material you will also have more problems to find a group in this language. As for self-testing my speaking skill. As soon as my listening skill is good enough I should have no problem. If I should have any doubt I could get some native help but no need of a group for that. Anyway I am more a listener than a speaker even in french. (Many people should self-test their skill speaking their native language.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 21 of 33 19 August 2011 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
A language exchange group is focused on learning from eachother and helping eachother. Getting people to repeat is not an issue.
There is an element I think you should consider: as humans, we are hard-wired to learn language from other humans. Not only from visual or auditory clues, but through holistic experiences that involve every part of your physical and cognitive being. I think you might be underestimating the power of learning from interaction with other humans rather than with a machine. These tools are perfect for when human interaction is not available, but they are no substitute. Edited by Arekkusu on 19 August 2011 at 7:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4952 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 22 of 33 19 August 2011 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
The human part for me consist in listening to people recordings, not to tts files. I could link some new sounds to the smell of a hot chocolate that I am cooking for my next break or with the taste of it. As for the things I touch - I have more freedom in private environment. My cognitive being is the same if I listen to mp3 or if I meet people - it only evolves with time. Time to cook and eat - no time to go deeper now. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 23 of 33 22 August 2011 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have one suggestion which might help with beginner-intermediate: conversation cards. A conversation card would be based on a topic, and have a list of set phrases and idioms, as well as vocabulary which would typically be used in a conversation around the topic. Small groups would grab a card, and discuss on the card's topic, referring to the vocabulary list when needed.
If you or anybody else makes any conversation cards like this, let me know, because I would like using them! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5316 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 24 of 33 22 August 2011 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Interesting idea! This also led me to a different idea: you could pass around cards that indicate a profession, and others need to find out what profession that is by asking questions. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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