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Using children’s material | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 33 of 46 04 September 2011 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@Therumsgone, first of all, great name! It had to be said.
However, much of what you says leads me to think you haven't tried much children's material yourself, other than Harry Potter. It is frequently said or implied on these forums that the language of children's books is too complex for beginners, and the topics are only of interest to children. For example, therumsgone wrote:
Of course it contains some complex features. But that is what actually makes it useful to adult learners. The language as a whole is still simpler, with a more limited vocabulary than adult material, but there are idioms and complex language which the foreigner can pick up in a more gentle way. I have used children's books a lot whenever I have learned modern languages. Even with simple books, I will come across expressions which I can't make out. But then I ask someone, look it up, or just make a note of it for later. Nevertheless, on the whole the language is simpler. And you can use them as graded readers to help to get yourself up to adult material. The comparison to French in Action is a false comparison. French in Action is excellent, and I use it. I have watched lessons 1-10. However, as a new beginner, I am now out of my depth with FIA. In order to truly benefit from FIA, you have to combine it with the other materials: the audio, workbooks and textbook. To benefit from children's materials, you have to combine it with other materials. See where this is going? The final point I would like to bring up is about topics and vocabulary. It is often said that children's books and videos are on topics of little interest to adults, or have vocabulary adults don't need to learn. But if you are going to an advanced level in a language, do you not want to know words any 5 year old would know? I know many people who are not native speakers in English, but are good English speakers. I would be surprised to find that any of them don't know the English words "monkey", "tricycle", etc. I have a "Zoe et Theo" book I picked up in Belgium. It is very simple, 3-4 lines per page, and I can just about work out what it means. And many of the topics in the series are, in fact, quite useful for an adult to learn about. Here are a few of the titles: "prennent le train", "au zoo", "a la piscine", "sont malades", "au parc", "chez les dinosaures", "decouverent la ville", "musiciens", and the one I have, "font du poney". Obviously, some of the words are going to be low down on the frequency lists. But I seriously doubt any of them are out of the top 3,000 words in French, except maybe from the books on dinosaurs or musicians. But remember that there are only 3-4 lines per page, so even in these books there aren't going to be many tough words. And almost any unusual word you come across can be worked out from the pictures. Now imagine reading an article from a magazine on any of those topics. People say things like "different strokes for different folks", but I suspect that most people who argue against children's material never have tried it themselves, because they already formed their opinion against it. Obviously, people have different ways of learning and different preferences. But I am certain that any new learner would benefit from having access to children's materials, and taking 15-20 minutes with it every now and then. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 34 of 46 04 September 2011 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is a good example of a quote which appears to be from someone who has never tried it. Just to take up one point, the narration in Teletubbies is not in baby talk. Of course the teletubbies themselves use baby talk, but most of the speech in the show is adult. Simple, but not baby talk. Edited by Jeffers on 04 September 2011 at 8:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| misslanguages Diglot Senior Member France fluent-language.blog Joined 4781 days ago 190 posts - 217 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German | Message 35 of 46 04 September 2011 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Jeffers, I think we should let it go. Bao probably got up on the wrong side of the bed or something. We tried it and it worked for us. If other people want to deprive themselves of free quality resources, it's their problem.
I'm very happy that I'm more open-minded than him toward the whole issue, and you'll succeed if you keep this mindset. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4844 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 36 of 46 04 September 2011 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
That is true, misslanguages. However, I'm also trying to help the original poster. So, with that in mind:
I don't think time is a huge pitfall, not more than with any other method. However, money could be a big problem. I mentioned the Zoe et Theo books a few posts up. If I could get the whole series, I would. There are 30 books, and I could read one per day for a month and really get some good practice. However, and 5 euros per book, that would be more expensive than I could justify. There are libraries, but unless you live where your target language is spoken you won't find much. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6800 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 37 of 46 04 September 2011 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
I find childrens books very useful because they have simplified language. However, children's TV is different, as cartoons often have squeeky voices that are distorted. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5065 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 38 of 46 05 September 2011 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've benefited tremendously from using material for children, be it comics, children's encyclopedias,
educational videos and TV shows, or, more recently, books for young readers. At the early stages of my Thai learning, I used educational videos and children's encyclopedias a lot, and later expanded to other media. Most of the material I've used was entertaining, funny and often taught me something new. I cannot understand why some people claim that material for children is boring. I have worked with a number of children's encyclopedias on animals & plants, natural history, geography & geology, and physics, as well as with educational videos on painting, drawing, clay modeling, Thai culture, food, dinosaurs, health, good behaviour etc. Books for young readers (say, age range 8-12) cover a wide variety of topics using natural (but not overly complex) language, including social issues (like drug abuse, neglect, AIDS, disability, poverty, migrant workers, excessive gaming), culture (interaction between different members of society, life at school, parent-children interaction, live in a village, town or temple, national and local festivals), phantasy (dreams, hopes and aspirations, parallel worlds, aliens) and history (historical settings, history of immigrant groups). I clearly want to attain the same level of proficiency in all of these topics that a Thai child has, and I'm struggling to understand how anybody could claim fluency or proficiency in a second language without being able to follow and engage in conversations on the above mentioned topics. Apart from the sheer necessity of being able to navigate these topics, I usually have enjoyed myself a lot. Stuff for children is often cute, funny and/or sensational, and I like that. Stuff for children is also repetitive, natural but not overly complex, and, in the case of science / general knowledge, covers familiar ground, all of which is great for picking up language effortlessly. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5500 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 39 of 46 05 September 2011 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Bao - I have read similar studies too, specifically one discussing the Baby Einstein videos. However, I do not think they give the whole picture as they rely on putting children in a room and making them watch something passively with no context except the video itself. This, I would accept, is probably pretty limited in giving language to a child.
I think children do learn from TV if there is carer (parent, nanny, etc) input as well to reinforce what is on TV. For example, my 2 1/2 year old son is bilingual English/German with English being dominant - only his mother and grandmother speak German to him and we have noticed that he picks up a good deal of German vocabulary from watching German children's DVDs. - for example in one video the character drops a bowel of raspberries and exclaims 'ach, meine himbeere' - this sentence was repeated by my son for a good few days later. This presented the opportunity for us to teach the difference between different berry fruits by buying them and showing the difference. TV can act as a catalyst for children to learn language if it is combined with active parental/adult input. It is more difficult to assess in English because of outside influences and because it is his dominant language but I would say that age appropriate TV speeds things up if there is some real life input from carers. As to myself - I have obtained a whole lot of basic vocabulary from watching children's material. Edited by Elexi on 05 September 2011 at 7:56pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5154 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 40 of 46 05 September 2011 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
Aren't Teletubbies by Ragdoll which is British ? and taken worldwide as a joint venture between Ragdoll and BBC Worldwide. Not my taste but I'm not above watching/listening to anything! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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