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Québec French Thread -- Ask any question | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 41 of 82 12 September 2012 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
You are correct in pointing out that in the spoken language, the grammar, the vocabulary and the pronunciation are different. That's why I thought there should be a separate tag. It's true though that in the formal or written language, the differences are not that important. They are no more, no less important than with German and Swiss-German, and they have a distinct tag. Although I'm not too clear on why what Québécois watch on TV would make a difference in this discussion, it should be noted that television series and movies marketed and broadcast in Québec are dubbed in Québec, as this is required by law. Québec also produces a lot of its own television series and shows. This article claims (in 2008) that while 34 percent of English Canadians watch Canadian content, 66 percent of Québécois do. Edited by Arekkusu on 12 September 2012 at 9:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| lecavaleur Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4775 days ago 146 posts - 295 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 42 of 82 12 September 2012 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
Swiss German and Standard German are MUCH more different from one another than are European and Quebec French. The level of mutual intelligibility between the former two can sometimes be near zero, while this is rarely the case with the latter two. As another poster already pointed out, Quebec and European French, while certainly distinct, are more or less mutually intelligible without issue. The grammatical differences are very few, the phonetic differences are regular and the vocabulary differences do not exceed 20 % on even the most generous estimates (even less in everyday speech). In my experience, it takes your average European speaker about two weeks to get used to the Quebec vernacular before they are completely acclimated. All that being said, I think that there should be a thread such as this one dedicated to Quebec French, but I do not think it should be classified by the site as a distinct language because it just isn't one. And I would argue that any student of Quebec French will find about 90% of what he needs to know about the grammar and vocabulary of the language in the standard French threads. The rest can be comfortably learned from specific sources and on a thread like this one. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6468 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 43 of 82 13 September 2012 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't consider Québécois to be a distinct language - but neither is Swiss German. The
two seem incredibly comparable to me. In both cases, the standard variations (e. g. standard Hochdeutsch and standard Swiss German) and written language are very close, but the language that is actually spoken is very far apart and not mutually intellegible without training. You can't go to a village in Québec or Switzerland and hope to absorb the differences quickly, as you could when going to the midi or Berlin. The differences are more profound and that's why there are books teaching people about them. I've recently tried my hand translating standard French into natural Québécois and I have to change almost every word of the sentence... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 44 of 82 13 September 2012 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
There seems to be a very real "dialect continuum" in Quebec. For example, when I was watching the news in Montreal, there was some sort of panel discussion (I forget the subject). Some panelists spoke standard French, some spoke mostly standard French with a comprehensible Quebec accent, and a few spoke "heavy" Quebecois. I have less than 10 hours exposure to true Quebecois, and I can get by fine in Montreal. Sure, I'll sometimes run into somebody who's really hard to understand. But I can get around town, buy stuff and watch TV with no insurmountable problems. It gets harder in smaller cities or the countryside. I know university educated people from Trois-Rivières who knock me back to a shaky B1, comprehension-wise, although they understand me just fine. I don't think this is especially unusual. There are elderly English speakers in rural Vermont whom I can just barely understand, despite having years of exposure to various other New England accents. I've never heard anybody claim that "Vermont English" is actually a separate language, though, despite the difficulty of understanding farmers from the World War II generation. :-) 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 45 of 82 13 September 2012 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Nobody said QF was a separate language. Just a different enough language variety spoken by a large enough population to warrant tagging it separately from French so that information on QF can be properly identified as such. But yes, there is indeed a dialect continuum as you mention. On the one hand, I can use standard French in the right situations and then turn around and use Québécois. I'll go: from "je vais t'en acheter quelques-uns" to "m'as te nn'ach'ter une coup'", from "ne t'en fais pas" to "fais-toé-z'en pas", from "je ne les ai plus par contre" to "j'es ai pu par exemple", or from "elle a attrapé la grippe" to "a' pogné 'a grippe". A person may or may not need to understand the latter, depending on their needs, but the learner deserves an explanation that French books won't cover. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4887 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 46 of 82 13 September 2012 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have a very practical question: how useful would a visit to Montréal be for a student
of standard French? I've been maintaining my French at a passive level, with the intention of activating it again should I return to a Francophone country. I might have the chance this coming Spring, as I'll be in Vermont already for a wedding. I'd love head north afterwards for a week of French immersion. Will people switch to standard French to help an American along? Or is the choice Québécois or English? The examples Arekkusu just gave looked foreign to me - I wouldn't understand a word of it. (I'd put myself at a B1 / B2 level: I can handle direct one-on-one communication, but would be lost in a social situation like a bar or party) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 47 of 82 13 September 2012 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
I believe so. In a one-on-one situation, I think people will make an effort to be comprehensible, and they should have no problem understanding you. However, you should familiarize yourself with the accent before going, otherwise you'll be spending some time adjusting to it. Why don't you look on Couchsurfing to see if anyone is willing to put you up or meet you for coffee? Make sure you clearly state your intention to immerse yourself and to speak French only while you are there, so people don't switch to English on you. Edited by Arekkusu on 13 September 2012 at 9:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5428 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 48 of 82 13 September 2012 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My suggestion is that if you come to Montreal, you should attend some of the French conversation meetups. They are a great way to practice your French. There are about four groups at least if my memory serves me well. Do a google on french meetups Montreal.
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